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Mr. DANIELSON. Thank you. Now, Mr. Lieb and Mr. Hoopes, you both referred to an item that troubles me here, the definition of “systematic reproduction,” what do you mean by that? And please give it to me kind of quickly, if you could.

Mr. LIEB. When a library, whether it is the large central research library, or the mother library in the network, when by plan or effect it regularly produces copies-regularly as distinguished from sporadically or on occasional instances--regularly produces copies which are provided to the user in lieu of the original, the book or the journal

Mr. DANIELSON. You are talking about a continuing operation, as opposed to an intermittent or sporadic one.

Mr. LIEB. Correct, and the Senate report makes that clear.
Mr. DANIELSON. Is that what you have in mind, also ?

Mr. Karp. I would quickly refer you to the Senate report; it gives the general definition as an example.

Mr. DANIELSON. You are adopting the definition, then, in the Senate report.

Mr. KARP. And I would point out that the Senate then urged the parties to sit down and work out more detailed guidelines.

Mr. DANIELSON. Funny they should have that foresight because I'm on the verge of making that same request. (Laughter.]

So, could you consider that request as having been renewed ?

Mr. Lieb, was copying of the type we were discussing today a sig. nificant problem before the advent of the quick copying equipment?

Mr. LIEB. I don't think so, sir.

Mr. DANIELSON. I am going to make an observation, then. Quick copying is here to stay; in fact, it is going to get quicker, and easier, and better; it is bound to. So, I think what we have to do, instead of fighting the inevitable like the motion pictures fought television for a long time—we just have to find a way where we can accommodate this thing, and live with it. Copying is not going to go away.

Mr. Hoopes. That's right, Mr. Chairman, and that is precisely our position. The publishers are in no way opposed to wide dissemination; we would simply like a reasonable licensing arrangement to cover works that are going to be copied in very large quantities; that is to say, under systematic copying arrangements.

Mr. DANIELSON. I was glad to hear that other people don't worry about the first amendment because I find it quite a problem in this committee.

One other item I had here. What about page charges, Dr. Cairns?

Dr. Cairns. The page charge came to the fore in about 1962 and applied, I think, almost entirely to the publication of technical societies, which was honored by a Government policy, which was first enunciated in 1961 by the Federal (Council on Science and Technology, which allowed the page charges which were in the order of $20 to $50 a page, printed page, of a publication, allowed this as a valid charge against research grants of Federal agencies. It was subsequently then reissued in slightly modified form by Dr. Guy Stevers within the past vear. That charge was studied by the technical societies, and generally speaking it is not mandatory, in other words, publication proceeds, even though page charges are not honored. But it is a source of income.

Mr. DANIELSON. To whom?

Mr. LIEB. To the societies who are publishing journals, and is entered into the budget of the general publication.

Mr. DANIELSON. What does the author of these articles derive in the way of monetary or other valuable considerations!

Mr. Lieb. He gets fame and prestige.
Mr. DANIELSON. That's what I thought.
Dr. Cairns. That is the name of the game.

Mr. DANIELSON. Oh, I have written a few, and I received exactly the same amount. (Laughter.]

Mr. Karp. Speaking for the authors, let me make this point. First of all, I should point out Mr. DeCassey who sits behind me represents the-association, no, page charges are not available from Government grants to commercial publishers, for profit.

Mr. DANIELSOX. By "society" you are talking about a so-called nonprofit organization.

Mr. Karp. The point I would make is this. First of all, the amendments and exemptions proposed by the library associations apply to all single copying, a tremendous amount of which is done of literary and artistic material, short stories, essays, the works; those authors write for money. As Dr. Cairns has pointed out, there is a very definite monetary motive for authors to write.

Mr. DANIELSON. One last question. In the type of copying that we are talking about, technical journals and the like, as opposed to the ones Mrs. Linden will tell us about tomorrow, which cover the whole gamut of intellectual products, who are the users in the sense ofare they something scandalous like "The Scarlet Letter" or are they truly technical books! Who uses them, in the sense of what category of person uses those copies?

Dr. Cairns. I didn't hear what you said.

Mr. DANIELSON. Are we talking about fiction here, or are we talking about strictly technical types of information?

In the Constitution it says here, “To promote the progress of science and the useful arts"; noiv, are we talking about "Gone With the Wind," or are we talking only about

Dr. Cairns. What we are talking about are the general terms of science. I think Mrs. Linden spoke about the useful arts.

Mr. DANJELSON. We have a quorum call on. Thank you very much for your patience. You know, by holding over for 12 minutes you got exactly your allocated amount of time. I appreciate your help very inuch; I'm sorry we couldn't give you more time.

Just winding up, tomorrow we will meet again, at 10 o'clock, and for the record, we have statements from the American Business Press, the Federal Librarians Association, the Special Libraries Association, the Wisconsin Interlibrary Loan Service, Music Library Association,

Association of Research Libraries, Williams & Wilkins Co., American Institute of Chemical Engineers, Advocates for the Arts, Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, Dr. Ray Woodrift, Montana State University, and the American Association of Law Libraries.

[The following statements were received for the record:)

STATEMENT OF AMERICAN BUSINESS PRESS, Inc.

The American Business Press, which is composed of some 400 xgxia.ind business publications published from coast to coast, is extremely ever! about the growing practice of unrestricted photocopying which has been esinenud in recent years, and only compounded by the Williams and Wilkins decora.

Inless a way can be found to protect the ability of periodical publishers send the money to gatber, edit and produce technical and scientific infra tion, and then distribute it throughout the nation, the flow of that informalt can be seriously curtailed.

Some American Business Press member publications, like Oil and Gas Journal are sent to paid subscribers. Others, like Iron Age, are sent via the culina circulation route to readers who specifically request the receipt of that poikia tion. In the first instance, both the reader and the advertiser supply the funds through the publisher, to permit the gathering and editing of technical and scientific articles, which are then copyrighted. In the second instance, tbt publication's primary income comes from advertisers. In both cases, bermay information is distributed to people employed in every phase of the technical and economic activity.

If the information and the articles gathered by editors are photocopied with out the consent of the copyright owner, we will have situations arising las the oue dramatized in the attached Exhibit A. We have deleted the barbecue the company which sent the memorandum out, but we present for the considera tion of the Committe what is happening.

The only effect of curtailed subscriptions or curtailed circulation which this practice will cause is a severe restriction upon the securing and circula 109 of important editorial information because scientific and technical publicas will not bave the wherewithall to gather and edit the information to be pulover e pied. If this happens, the important news and scientific and technical infor mation gathering function performed by the specialized business prres will be seriously impaired, and there will be considerably less information to photo cops for those who do not respect copyrights.

We think the attached example tells the story better than we can. Hopefully the Committe and the Commission established in the last Congress will ev:0€ up with solutions to this most serious problem. The American Business Press siands ready to be of whatever assistance it can in this effort. Attachment: Exhibit A.

EXHIBIT A To: All Fome office executives.

APRIL 10, 1973 Re: Market Research Library Periodical Service.

A mrvice provided by the Market Research Library primarily for Market Restarch personnel is being expanded and offered to all home ofbor executive

The Library presently retrives the 79 publications on the attactand list. (Wof the ones that interest you and return theın. You will receive the monthly talits of contents of your choices.

From the tables of contents, choose the article you want, circle the title and return them to the Library. Xerox copies of the articles will be sent to you

Piease use this service to help supplement your current reading and to e.uindo nate or cut bark on your present subscription comes

UR MARKET RESEARCH LIBRARY PERIODICAL List

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1. A10 Planning Advisory Service (Monthis).
2 A- Piani.104 Magurine (Month's).
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16 Hasies Nati10% inheet of paper) (Weekly).
17 Hores Week Wedly).
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other institutions threatens the wide dissemination of research
results and the financial stability of our publishing program.

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