The CHAIRMAN. That program has not been approved; it was proposed, but the proposal has been withdrawn. Mr. DODD. There will be some linseed oil. Mr. STEFAN. Some linseed oil? Mr. DODD. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Linseed oil will go in as fats and oils? Mr. NORTHRUP. That will be included. The CHAIRMAN. That is included in the total. Mr. DODD. They are making some margarine today from linseed oil. The CHAIRMAN. Is that the same kind of linseed used for paint? Mr. DODD. That is right. I do not believe our people would enjoy margarine made from linseed oil, but those people have been denied fats so long that they take it and say it is good. Mr. MAHON. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have Mr. Stefan's question sufficiently answered in the record. We are primarily interested in knowing approximately how much peanut oil, approximately how much cottonseed oil and approximately what other oils are included in this program? Mr. STEFAN. Can you give us that information? The CHAIRMAN. Also cocoa. Mr. MAHON. Can you give us a general break-down? Mr. DODD. I do not believe that any human could give you the figures on any firm basis today, because fats and oils are interchangeable; that is, if the price of one goes up the shift may be made to another, or if the production of one goes up its supply may replace another oil. Mr. MAHON. It will depend upon price and availability? Mr. DODD. Price and availability; yes. In other words, if peanut oil gets too high and you have a good production of cottonseed oil you would take cottonseed oil instead of peanut oil. But over this past 6 or 8 months the demands for oil have been so great that they are paying good prices. Mr. MAHON. What is the approximate price per pound? Mr. DODD. I will have to put the exact information in the record; but it runs from around 26 down to 11 cents. I think we can give you a fairly accurate statement on that. Mr. NORTHRUP. We can give you a pretty fair estimate. In March 1948 lard prices were 22 cents a pound, cottonseed oil 24 cents, peanut oil 24, soybean oil 21, corn oil, 23, linseed oil 28, inedible tallow 19, cottonseed oil foots 6. The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Fitzgerald has stepped out for a moment. I wonder if he could give us the percentages estimated in this program. Mr. DODD. He can give a rough estimate, I am sure, as to a number of items. Mr. MAHON. Of course, it is obvious that they might vary considerably. The CHAIRMAN. Surely; I know that, but the crop of peanuts might be better than the crop of soybeans, or the crop of soybeans might be better than some other crop. Mr. DODD. Today, you see, tallow is fairly plentiful, and tallow is relatively cheap in comparison to some of the other oils. There again you have to take into consideration the inedible tallow and the edible tallow, and the price has an awful lot to do with the amount that goes into the different oils. Mr. MAHON. Of course, we all know that margarine and butter will be somewhat scarcer for the American consumer by reason of the exports of these fats and oils, and I would like to know generally what the situation is? Mr. DODD. The world is still short and it looks like it is going to be short of fats and oils for some little period. Mr. STEFAN. Are they proposing to send over any lard? Mr. DODD. There might be some lard. Last year there was a time or two when we had to move lard when there was a drop in the price in this country. The CHAIRMAN. You said there was a considerable amount of tallow that was available. What is that, beef? Mr. DODD. Beef tallow, yes. The only thing we have to keep in mind is the question of restriction on exports, because the people here like tallow; it is used in margarine, and some of the other oils. Mr. STEFAN. Like Crisco? Mr. DODD. Swift's Spry; it is used in it. Mr. STEFAN. There is tallow in it? Mr. DODD. Tallow is used in it. The CHAIRMAN. Some is used in oleo? Mr. DODD. Not so much. The CHAIRMAN. A considerable quantity in oleo? Mr. DODD. I can give you the exact figures showing what they were last year. The CHAIRMAN. It was not a big item? Mr. DODD. Not a big item in here, except if we can get a lot of tallow cheaper. Mr. NORTHRUP. I can add this much to the information, that of the 64,000 tons of imports The CHAIRMAN. Of what figure? Mr. NORTHRUP. Of the 64,000 tons. Mr. STEFAN. Into Austria? Mr. NORTHRUP. Into Austria, the brown book indicates that only 16,000 tons is estimated to come from the United States. The CHAIRMAN. That does not make so much difference, because it has to come from the world supply. Mr. NORTHRUP. That is right. Mr. DODD. And we need to import oils also. The CHAIRMAN. We have always been an importer. Mr. DODD. Yes. Mr. NORTHRUP. I think Dr. Fitzgerald should comment on the question you have raised concerning the estimates of the allocations for next year, but I think it might be well to understand that fats and oils is one of the major items still being allocated by the IEFC. The allocations for next year have not been made by the IEFC. They have studies underway, and these are only estimates of what it might look like. That is the reason that it makes it difficult to supply answers to the kinds of questions you are asking particularly by countries. the fats and oils picture is very complicated and very difficult to analyze statistically in advance. Mr. MAHON. What is the greatest source of fats and oils in this country; soybeans? Mr. DODD. Probably today it would be about the same as cottonseed. If we get the anticipated planting of soybean acreage it will probably be about the same as cottonseed, but yields per acre can vary this somewhat. Mr. NORTHRUP. This gives a picture of the over-all estimates of the countries as a whole, but if you need it broken down by individual items for the particular countries we do not have that figure. Mr. MAHON. Could you tell us about what the percentage would be, Dr. Fitzgerald? Dr. FITZGERALD. I believe I can answer it. A rough approximation of the total of our exports of fats and oils from the United States The CHAIRMAN. Exports? Dr. FITZGERALD. Exports, yes, around 250,000 tons, of which 150,000 tons will go to the 16 ERP countries, and roughly, again Mr. STEFAN. That is through 1949? Dr. FITZGERALD. That is 1948-49. Mr. STEFAN. The fiscal year? Dr. FITZGERALD. Yes. And of the 150,000, about 50,000 will be lard; about 40,000 peanuts; 10,000 soybeans; 10,000 cottonseed; and 4,000 other, of which linseed, as Mr. Dodd indicated, will be the most important; it will include tallow and inedible oils of varying kinds. Mr. STEFAN. How about the 20 percent of coco? Dr. FITZGERALD. Mr. Stefan, I was referring to exports here. Mr. STEFAN. From the United States? Dr. FITZGERALD. Yes; and for the committee's information-The CHAIRMAN. The over-all quantity that goes into the program; how would that be broken down? Dr. FITZGERALD. From all sources? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Dr. FITZGERALD. I can give the figures in general, if you would like to have them. The CHAIRMAN. That is what we are trying to get. Dr. FITZGERALD. You see the difficulty on that. I will be glad to give the information, but a great deal of it will be from the colonial areas of the 16 countries. For example there will be about 80,000 tons coming from the French colonial territories, of which the major item will be peanuts from west Africa. The CHAIRMAN. Why do we need to be financing the operations with their own colonials, when the only thing they have to pay with is exchange in sterling? Dr. FITZGERALD. Mr. Chairman, I was a little elliptical. I should have said that the figures that I am referring to will be a part of the over-all, not under this program; not what will be paid under this program. The CHAIRMAN. That is the total they will get; their total imports? Dr. FITZGERALD. That is correct. Mr. CASE. Why should they in any degree pay dollars to the colonial possessions of any of these recipient countries? Can they not take care of them out of their own currency? Mr. NORTHRUP. Mr. Nitze should discuss that. Mr. CASE. What about cocoa; where do they get the cocoa? Mr. NITZE. From the Western Hempisphere; from Brazil, and a very small amount Mr. CASE. The colonial possessions of some of the participating countries produce a great deal of cocoa. Mr. NITZE. Some of them. The CHAIRMAN. Most of them. The British production in the colonial possessions is practically two-thirds of the world's supply. Dr. FITZGERALD. About one-half; a little better than one-half. Mr. NITZE. I think the point is that these estimates are based on the flow of commodities, so there would not be a drastic change in the free flow of commodities. The amount of coco flowing from this country to Europe would be relatively insignificant in dollars. Mr. CASE. There has been no attempt, in estimating this program, to work it out in such a way as to save the taxpayers of the United States? Mr. NITZE. Yes; we think this is the way in which the maximum amount of the taxpayers' money will be saved. Mr. CASE. It seems to me they have figured out as much as possible how we can put up dollars to insure they will have these supplies and obtain them without the use of their own currency. Mr. STEFAN. Let us finish with the fats and oils. Will you put in the record at this point a break-down of the fats and oils to the 16 countries so we can have the record complete on that item? Mr. MAHON. That is what I would like to get; a complete picture of fats and oils and then forget it. Dr. FITZGERALD. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. It is difficult for the committee to sit here and check over the figures, and I am wondering, Mr. Fitzgerald, if you cannot secure that information for us and let us go ahead with the other items. Dr. FITZGERALD. Yes. (The information requested follows:) Tentative distribution of fats and oils imports of participating countries by sources and types, July 1, 1948-June 30, 1949 NOTE. Asterisk (*) indicates sources from which some supplies may be financed with ECA funds under present plans] |