Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Leaving the matter of distribution up to the local authorities?

Dr. FITZGERALD. Yes, sir.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I notice that for Ireland, the amount exceeds prewar in calories in respect to grains; there is a total of 413,000 metric tons ECA-financed, for a total available supply of 1,969,000 as compared with 1,641,000 prewar.

Mr. NORTHRUP. They are given about the same estimated supply as they had this last year. There is a very small difference.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What is the population of Ireland?

Mr. NORTHRUP. The figure I have is 3,000,000.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. For Italy, 1,539,000 imports for a total availability of 12,689,000, as compared with 12,193,000 prewar and 11,042,000 this year.

What is the population of Italy?

Mr. NORTHRUP. Forty-six million six hundred thousand, which is about four million more than prewar, incidentally.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The Netherlands, approximately 1,000,000 imports for an available supply of 2,965,000, which is 600,000 more than the present year, but about 300,000 less than prewar.

Mr. NORTHRUP. The population is 9,600,000 or about 1,100,000 more than prewar.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. For Norway, there is a very small import under ECA. You are going to give them an availability of 875.000, compared with 897,000 prewar and 793,000 in the current year. The domestic supply is on the increase, but not up to prewar?

Mr. NORTHRUP. That is right.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What is that population?

Mr. NORTHRUP. For Norway, 3,100,000. If you wish, I can give you the prewar population. The prewar population was 2,900,000. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Portugal has nothing under ECA apparently? Mr. NORTHRUP. It is not to be financed out of ECA in this estimate. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Their available supply is 1,508,000 compared with 1,072,000 prewar, and the available supply for this year is 1,451,

000.

Mr. NORTHRUP. Their population is 8,100,000 and prewar it was 7,400,000.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Sweden, no importations under ECA. Their total supply will be 3,085,000, as compared with 3,270,000 prewar and 2,248,000 this year.

Mr. NORTHRUP. The population is 7,000,000; the population prewar was 6,300,000.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Switzerland has no importations under ECA. They have about 200,000 above prewar, an available supply of 1,311,000 metric tons. What is their population?

Mr. NORTHRUP. Four million five hundred thousand; prewar it was 4,200,000.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Turkey has an available supply of 6,892,000; prewar 7,141,000, and this year 6,239,000.

Mr. NORTHRUP. You will note that the 1948-49 estimate there, the first figure you called, indicates a small amount of exports out of Turkey.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Where do those go? They do not import at all, apparently; that is all domestic production?

Mr. NORTHRUP. Yes.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What is the population?

Mr. NORTHRUP. Nineteen million four hundred thousand; prewar sixteen million four hundred thousand.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. United Kingdom importations 1,933,000; available supply 14,293,000 as compared with 14,193,000 prewar, and $13,198,000 this year.

Mr. NORTHRUP. Yes, sir.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Their domestic production is less in 1948 than 1947, but is on the increase, it is estimated now.

Mr. NORTHRUP. It is higher than any of the previous years you have in that table?

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Seven million nine hundred and ninety-three thousand as compared with four million five hundred and twenty-one thousand prewar. What is the population?

Mr. NORTHRUP. The population is 49,100,000; prewar 47,100,000.

SOURCE OF ECA GRAIN SHIPMENTS

Mr. MAHON. Mr. Chairman, I would like the witness to tell us where these ECA shipments of 1,933,000 tons are coming from.

Mr. NORTHRUP. If you will let me talk about the figure in the next column, I can explain it to you; the figure of 6,300,000. Of the 6,300,000, 3,995,000 is from Canada; 725,000 from other countries in the Western Hemisphere, such as Argentina; 1,580,000 from other nonparticipating countries. That means other sources like Australia. None from the United States in these estimates. That adds up to 6,300,000.

Mr. MAHON. But our American dollars would pay for this grain even though the grain did not come from the United States?

Mr. NORTHRUP. This column would indicate 1,933,000 tons; that is right.

Mr. NITZE. I might say with respect to that column that the shipments for the United Kingdom include the overseas dependent territories of the United Kingdom. Also this represents ECA shipments financed during that period. It does not include shipments which might be obligated for under ECA that would not take place until after that period. It is difficult to make these figures exactly comparable, but this represents shipments estimated to be financed. under ECA.

Mr. MAHON. Of the estimated import of 6,300,000 metric tons, how much would be coarse grains?

Mr. DODD. Prewar about 40 percent of the grain imports were coarse grains.

Mr. MAHON. What would Great Britain do with coarse grains? Is some of that feed for livestock?

Mr. DODD. All of it is imported for feed for livestock.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Generally speaking, when you speak of coarse grains in these tables, do you mean feed for livestock?

Mr. DODD. Not altogether; it is used for industrial purposes, too. Corn for starch, corn sugar, and corn sirup-things like that-and for processed food.

75408-48-pt. 1- -23

Mr. NORTHRUP. In recent years much of the coarse grain imports have gone for food because of the shortage of wheat world-wide. But normally most of the coarse grains imported are largely livestock feed and for industrial purposes, as Mr. Dodd has described.

USE OF GRAIN SORGHUMS

Mr. MAHON. I have observed that many of the countries of the world are now using what we call in the Southwest grain sorghums; that is, as food for human consumption. Is that a temporary trend, or not?

Mr. DODD. I would like Mr. Fitzgerald to comment on that.

Mr. MAHON. Will you comment on that, Dr. Fitzgerald? I am thinking of India, which is seeking in every possible way to get more of our grain sorghums. And I believe we are using some in Germany and Korea and Japan.

Dr. FITZGERALD. We are using a very small amount in Germany, but in India particularly they have traditionally used grain sorghums in some parts of the country. It is their normal diet. I think both Japan and Korea have traditionally used grain sorghums as a food. Mr. DODD. Of course, now because they are short of rice the demand would be for even greater amounts than they purchased prewar, to replace the rice.

Mr. MAHON. If we make a pretty good crop, pretty generally balanced according to past history, most of our grain exports will be wheat and then next will come corn and then rice and grain sorghums and the other grains which would come in for a lesser portion; is that right?

Mr. DODD. I think we will have a call for rice and grain sorghums which we can make available for export regardless of the others. We are in the position now of having a good deal larger production of rice than we can possibly use in this country. It has been built up a great deal since the beginning of the war. But there is no chance of the rest of the world getting back on rice production as they were immediately prior to the war.

Dr. FITZGERALD. Congressman, I think I am correct in saying that if India canno get wheat, for which it has first preference, then it would take grain sorghums as second preference.

GRAIN IMPORTS, AVAILABILITY, ETC., FOR GERMANS

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. For Germany is given 462.2 imports under the ECA; total availability of 12,771,000 as compared with prewar of 14,265,000, and the current figure, 11,684,000. Do you have these figures broken down by zones?

Mr. NORTHRUP. I have population figures for the three zones together-bizonia, French zone, and the Saar. The population in 1947 was 49,800,000; prewar, 43,100,000.

Mr. MAHON. Most of that grain is to come from the United States; and it is contemplated that the grain you are talking about is grain for the Government of the occupied areas?

Mr. NORTHRUP. I can give you the break-down of the total of 4,825,000 tons for the three zones.

For bizonia alone, 3,170,000 tons from the United States; 200,000 from Canada; 245,000 from other Western Hemisphere countries; and 730,000 from the other nonparticipating countries; which might be eastern Europe or some other part of the world.

Then for the French zone and the Saar-I can add them together275,000 from the United States; 205,000 from the other Western Hemisphere countries; and none from Canada.

Those add up to the 4,825,000 figure in this book. These figures I am quoting compare with those in the brown book.

Mr. MAHON. I see.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Unless the production is increasing pretty slowly, it still is well below prewar, I notice.

Mr. NORTHRUP. But these figures show some increases over the current year, in the total grains.

MONDAY, APRIL 26, 1948.

FATS AND OILS

REQUIREMENTS FOR AUSTRIA

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is fats and oils. Your picture on that in Austria, the first country, is ECA shipments, 25,000 tons out of 64,000 of imports, giving them an availability of 106,000 tons.

That means an increase in the amount of items available, of imports, of 12,000 tons above the prewar picture. It is also set up to give them an increase of 44,000 tons above the 1946-47 picture, and 28,000 above the 1947-48.

Why do we need to go as far as that, and why can they not do better than that domestically?

Mr. NORTHRUP. I call attention to the fact that the estimated supply for 1948-49 is still below prewar.

The CHAIRMAN. I appreciate that.

Mr. NORTHRUP. This is an attempt to get them back toward the prewar figure with regard to this very important food category.

The CHAIRMAN. They have not had any more reduction than we have had in the per capita set up, have they?

Mr. NORTHRUP. The figures I have before me would be, prewar in the United States, on a per capita basis, in terms of fats and oils, 44.7 pounds, per capita; and in 1947, 41.1.

The CHAIRMAN. Forty-one and one-tenth.

Mr. NORTHRUP. Yes; which is 92 percent of prewar.

The CHAIRMAN. And this will bring them above prewar per capita, will it not?

Mr. NORTHRUP. You mean in Austria?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; 1947 shows

Mr. NORTHRUP. No; this is for United States.

Mr. DODD. This figure he gave was for the United States.

Mr. NORTHRUP. That is correct.

Mr. STEFAN. The 44.7 per capita is in the United States; and now is 41?

Mr. NORTHRUP. Yes.

Mr. STEFAN. That is for the United States.

Mr. NORTHRUP. That is right; that is 92 percent of prewar according to this estimate. In Austria the available supply would be 106,000 tons next year, compared with 115,000 tons prewar.

Mr. STEFAN. What kind of fats and oils are you talking about when you refer to fats and oils?

Mr. MAHON. That was a question I had in mind; what fats and oils are involved in this picture.

Mr. STEFAN. Can you tell us what they are?

Mr. NORTHRUP. These are largely edible fats and oils. Fats and oils cover a wide variety of items.

Mr. STEFAN. We know that, but we would like to know what is included.

Mr. MAHON. I would like to know the items that are covered.

Mr. STEFAN. That is what I have in mind.

Mr. DODD. They are both edible and inedible fats and oils.
Mr. STEFAN. But what are they, Mr. Dodd?

Mr. DODD. You mean the different kinds of fats and oils?

Mr. STEFAN. Yes.

Mr. NORTHRUP. We do not have a complete break-down by countries of the kinds of fats and oils.

Mr. STEFAN. Not by countries; just give us the different kinds of fats and oils covered in this program.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it lard, coco, peanut oil, butterfat, or what?
Mr. NORTHRUP. It would not be butter.

The CHAIRMAN. What would it be?

Mr. NORTHRUP. Except as respects butter from their own production. The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. NORTHRUP. If you would like to have that broken down we can attempt to get it.

Mr. STEFAN. I think you should put in the record a break-down of the kinds of fats and oils in this program.

The CHAIRMAN. There must be someone who would know about that. Mr. DODD. Mr. Fitzgerald I think can give that.

Dr. FITZGERALD. The major imports will be liquid edible oils of which the more important ones will be peanuts, soybeans, cottonseed oil, lard, and others.

Mr. STEFAN. Peanuts and what?

Dr. FITZGERALD. Cottonseed and soybean oil.

Mr. STEFAN. About how much?

Dr. FITZGERALD. There will be a considerable quantity of coconut oil.
Mr. STEFAN. By considerable quantity just what do you mean?
Dr. FITZGERALD. I would say about 20 percent of the total.
Mr. STEFAN. Twenty percent. Where does that come from?
Dr. FITZGERALD. Most of it from the Philippine Islands.

Mr. STEFAN. Will any of it be taken from the stock pile that we are proposing to build up? We are proposing to have a stock pile of some 300,000,000 tons. Do you know if any of it will come from that source?

Dr. FITZGERALD. I know of no stock pile of fats and oils.

Mr. STEFAN. I am speaking of the stock piling that is now in the program that is proposed.

Dr. FITZGERALD. I do not know of it; there is none that has been stock-piled.