Mr. NEWTON. How long do you calculate it will take to make the improvements? Mr. BARNES. If we do not get any more court troubles this year, we will get all of our contracts under way by fall, and that will require three years to build them. Mr. NEWTON. Is there any cause for delay thus far? Mr. NEWTON. You mentioned court proceedings. Mr. BARNES. We have got into one that delayed it for two or three years, the question of the constitutionality of our law. Now that our supreme court has decided and say that we are working in a constitutional manner, apparently we are through with all our court troubles. We can not conceive of any other troubles. Both parties are back of this, and all are urging the early completion. Mr. NEWTON. Do you think that you can finish it now in three years? Mr. CHALMERS (interposing). What do you mean by both parties? Mr. BARNES. Democrats and Republicans. Mr. CHALMERS. This $20,000,000 that you referred to, is that public money or private money? Mr. BARNES. Public money. It is a bond issue from the State through a vote of the people. Mr. CHALMERS. For a certain district, or the entire State? Mr. BARNES. The entire State. Mr. McDUFFIE. Mr. Barnes, I understood you to say that your amendment permitted you to use this money for waterways for power and navigation? Mr. BARNES. Yes, sir. Mr. MCDUFFIE. Do you mean to say that the State is now investing money in power developments on this river? Mr. BARNES. No, sir. I think you will find that I have already said that although we are permitted to do that under our constitutionMr. MCDUFFIE (interposing). You have not gone into the power business at all? Mr. BARNES. No, sir. Mr. MCDUFFIE. You are developing a waterway? Mr. BARNES. Yes, sir; and it is going to take all of our $20,000,000 to provide for our waterway. We are not expending a dollar for water power and do not propose to from this $20,000,000. Mr. MCDUFFIE. You do not get power incidentally to your waterway development? Mr. BARNES. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. To and from where does the State improvement extend, so that we may have that in mind? Mr. BARNES. From Lockport, the lower end of the Sanitary Canal. to Utica, in the Illinois River, a distance of about 65 miles. Mr. SEGER. Did you say that there are $20,000,000 available for this improvement? Mr. BARNES. Yes, sir. Mr. SEGER. Have the bonds been sold for $20,000,000? Mr. BARNES. They are serial bonds, $1,000,000 coming due annually, and they began to cancel those bonds in 1919, if I remember correctly, and $1,000,000 is being canceled yearly, and we have not proceeded fast enough to catch up with the cancellation of our bonds yet, but as soon as we do, which we expect to do this year, then we can sell the remaining bonds, but now we are canceling them so that we can get the full face value. Mr. CHALMERS. What are you spending your money for? Mr. BARNES. We are constructing five locks and dams in the improvement of the river, deepening and widening, and the purchase of right of way, paying damage claims, and things of that nature— purely a navigation proposition. Mr. NEWTON. That is on the Illinois River? Mr. BARNES. On the Illinois and the Des Plaines River. Mr. NEWTON. The Des Plaines River is a branch of the Illinois, is it? Mr. BARNES. The Des Plaines and the Kankakee join and form the Illinois, and we go down the Des Plaines to the junction of the Kankakee and then follow down the Illinois. Mr. NEWTON. Would you point it out on the map there? Mr. CHALMERS. From Chicago down. Mr. BARNES. Our construction work starts from Lockport, a distance of about 35 miles from Chicago, then extends down the Des Plaines River and then the Illinois River to Utica. There, or shortly below that point, at La Salle, are the upper limits of the Federal power project now calling for an improvement to a 7-foot depth, and the Federal Government controls and operates the improvement of the river. Mr. MCDUFFIE. You do not mean Federal power project? Mr. BARNES. No. The Federal Government does this except for two points there, at Copperas Creek and Henry, where the State built two locks in the early 70's. The Government also has two locks in the river, one at Lagrange and the other at Kampsville. The CHAIRMAN. How far apart are they? Mr. BARNES. Right around 60 miles. The CHAIRMAN. Let us start over again. Show us where these five locks are in the State project. Mr. BARNES. One lock is at the very beginning, a 41-foot lift at Lockport; then at Joliet The CHAIRMAN (interposing). How far is that? Mr. BARNES. About 6 miles. The second lock has a lift of 31 feet, and then we go down to half a mile below the junction with the Kankakee River, and we have a third lock The CHAIRMAN (interposing). How far is that? Mr. BARNES. That is some 18 or 19 miles, with a lift of 17 feet; then the next lock is just below Marseilles, a distance of about 50 miles, a lift of 21 feet, and the last lock is at the lower limits of our construction. We are 65 miles from the beginning. The CHAIRMAN. And how far from Marseilles? Mr. BARNES. That is about 70 or 80 miles. The CHAIRMAN. And how much of a drop is there there? Mr. BARNES. About 15 feet. The CHAIRMAN. Well, now, in the report I see that they are going to provide for the partial removal of the two State dams. Which of the two are they going to provide for? Mr. BARNES. They are providing for the removal of the dams at Henry and Copperas Creek, the old dams constructed in the 70's. Now, will you just tell the committee where these two dams are, the partial removal of which is recommended? Mr. BARNES. One is at Henry, Ill. The CHAIRMAN. How far is that from the foot of the present State improvement? Mr. BARNES. Around 25 miles. I am speaking in general terms on these distances. The CHAIRMAN. That is all we want; approximately. Mr. BARNES. And the next one is at Copperas Creek, a distance of about 50 miles further downstream. The CHAIRMAN. Now, tell us what they mean by partial removal, as you understand it? Mr. BARNES. It means the removal of the dam itself and the river wall of the lock The locks are adjoining the shore, so that the land wall is a part of the shore, and they cause no obstruction for navigation or the flow of the stream, and they also provide a very suitable landing place or dock for the farmers that would use this for shipping purposes, so that there is no necessity of removing those walls. The CHAIRMAN. Now, I see that they say that there is to be a retention and minor alteration of two Federal locks. Tell us where they are. Mr. BARNES. The two Federal locks are at Lagrange The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Where is Lagrange? Mr. BARNES. Lagrange is about 60 miles upstream from the mouth. The CHAIRMAN. From Grafton? Mr. BARNES. From Grafton; and Kampsville is the last lock in the series, and that is about 20 miles upstream from Grafton. The CHAIRMAN. What is it proposed to do with those two Federal locks, as you understand it? Mr. BARNES. Repairs will be necessary on the crest of the dam. The crest will have to be raised a certain amount, depending upon the flow that Congress finally fixes, and the gates will need repairing, and certain other minor repairs of the auxiliaries about these structures. Mr. CHALMERS. The Chairman had reference to the removal of the dam. The CHAIRMAN. No; a retention and minor alteration of the two Federal locks. Now, will it be necessary to do anything else to the foundations of those two Federal locks? Mr. BARNES. Yes; if The CHAIRMAN (interposing). I mean in order to convert it from its present depth to a 9-foot channel. Mr. BARNES. If a 9-foot project is approved, it will be necessary to remove only the sills that are higher and lower them 2 feet. They are made on a 7-foot project. The CHAIRMAN. Well, that describes about what is to be done to them, does it not? Mr. BARNES. Yes, sir. Mr. MANSFIELD. Are those the Government locks that you are speaking of? The CHAIRMAN. Yes; the two Federal locks. Mr. CHALMERS. Are these locks all uniform in dimensions? Mr. BARNES. Yes, sir. That is the highest lift lock that there is in the world. Mr. HULL. You are talking about the locks that you are building, not these old locks? Mr. BARNES. No. Mr. CHALMERS. That is 9 feet clear over the sill. Mr. BARNES. More than that; more than 20 feet. The CHAIRMAN. Now, in addition to the partial removal of the two State dams and the alterations of the two Federal locks there is to be dredging, is there not? Mr. BARNES. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Tell us where it is to be. Mr. BARNES. It is in shoals along the river at various places. I am sorry I did not bring a map that shows that situation, but the river is a succession of shoals and it is to take off the tops of those shoal places. Mr. NEWTON. Is the Illinois River stable? Mr. BARNES. The Illinois River is a very stable stream, and you can realize this when you consider that there is a fall of about 23 feet from La Salle to the mouth of the river. Mr. CHALMERS. Where is La Salle on the map? Mr. BARNES. It is just below the point where the State's work stops. The CHAIRMAN. Just below Utica. Mr. BARNES. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Are you able to find dumping grounds on the banks opposite where that dredging is done? Mr. BARNES. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You would do it by pipe line? Mr. BARNES. I presume so, yes. Most of the work is soft, so that it can be taken out with a hydraulic dredge. Mr. McDUFFIE. What volume of water are you expecting to handle with these projects you are contemplating up there as State projects? How much water do you expect to get or to use from Lake Michigan in the construction of your locks and dams? Mr. BARNES. The work that the State is doing, so far as the locks are concerned, is not a controlling factor in the amount of water necessary for navigation purposes. It will require upwards of 1,000 cubic feet of water per second for lockage purposes only. The work that the State is doing covers the most precipitous part of the strip, where we have a fall of some 140 feet in that 65 miles, and that is being completely canalized, and there is only one reach where there is very much of a slope. Now, our plans were approved by the Secretary of War and the Chief of Engineers based on a low water flow in that slope of 6,000 cubic feet per second. Now, if the diversion is lessened, of course, that slope flattens, and it will be necessary to do more work, as is pointed out in this report. If the diversion is decreased, it will cost the State $1,200,000 for the work it is doing. Mr. McDUFFIE. The more water you have, the less work you have to do, and the less expensive it is to construct this project? Mr. BARNES. Yes, sir. Mr. CHALMERS. The work you refer to is in dredging and deepening the channel? Mr. BARNES. Yes, sir. Mr. CHALMERS. You do not mean the construction of another dam to hold the water up? Mr. BARNES. No. Our constitutional amendment was passed in 1908. Since that time we have presented several plans to the Chief of Engineers and the Secretary of War for approval. These plans have contemplated various sizes of the locks and various capacities of the canals, and for one reason or another they have failed to receive the approval of the Secretary of War until the plan we are finally working on. This plan is standard with the Ohio River improvements, with locks 600 feet usable length and 110 feet in width. That plan was urged upon us by the district engineer located at Chicago at that time, and when the plans were drawn as per his suggestion and sent here to the Chief of Engineers and the Secretary of War we received the permit under which we are now working. Mr. NEWTON. Now, those are the State locks above Utica? Mr. NEWTON. What did you say the capacity dimensions are? Mr. CHALMERS. That is, inside measurements? Mr. BARNES. No. As to the locks at the Soo that you hear so much about, they speak of them as being 1,300 feet long, and our locks are 681 feet long, but I said usable length. We are fixing them for a fleet 600 feet long, so a fleet 600 feet long and 110 feet wide can navigate our locks without breaking up the fleet. Mr. NEWTON. That is, the State lock? Mr. BARNES. Yes, sir. Mr. NEWTON. What about those locks down below that? Mr. BARNES. They are about 310 to 320 feet, usable length, and 75 feet in width, and have a capacity of only 31 per cent of the capacity of the locks the State is building. Mr. NEWTON. Well, then, the tows that will go through the high locks, or that would have to go through the other locks, would have to be broken up? Mr. BARNES. Yes, sir. Mr. CHALMERS. In the 65-mile stretch where you build canals, what is your mileage of canals-do you remember? Mr. BARNES. About 13,000 feet of canal-about 2 miles a little over that. Mr. HULL. I wish you would explain what your judgment is on keeping your old locks in it. Mr. BARNES. I am coming to that. Mr. HULL. Go ahead, then. Mr. BARNES. In planning the State work the State was controlled somewhat by the opinions of the engineer officers who had previously |