The CHAIRMAN. Therefore, it is a matter of the will to do it and the necessary money to do it with.

Dr. MCCABE. That is true.

The CHAIRMAN. Any city could eliminate smoke tomorrow if they wanted to-maybe not that quick, but within any given period of time, if they had the will to do so and would appropriate or spend the necessary money. Is that a correct statement?

Dr. MCCABE. That is a correct statement, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. They have a bad situation in California. You say that isn't caused by smoke. What is it caused by? They will be here later to testify for themselves. I guess you know that every Congressman in California, particularly those in Los Angeles, as well as Senators Knowland and Kuchel, are vitally interested in this legislation.

Dr. MCCABE. Yes, sir. And the Vice President is also interested in it.

The CHAIRMAN. That is correct.

Dr. MCCABE. I went out to California in 1947 and established the Air Pollution District of the County of Los Angeles, and served there 2 years before coming back. So, I am familiar with it, and I am a consultant to the district.

That is an unusual air pollution problem. The local meteorological conditions are great factors and of course the great development of industry has added to this problem. But primarily, that difficulty seems to be from hydrocarbon fumes in the air, from automobiles, from refineries, vapor loss in storage, and other things. There is a difference of opinion on it, of course, as there is quite often in these things.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think it can be eliminated?

Dr. MCCABE. I think it can be made so one can live with it tolerably. I think when you put 4 million people in one spot, under those weather conditions, you will always have air pollution problems, but you can reduce it to the point where people are not unhappy about it.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, thank you very much, and we may want to call you back later for more information. You have been very helpful to us this morning.

Dr. MCCABE. Thank you for the opportunity.

The CHAIRMAN. Our next witness is Morris Duane, chairman of the Smoke Abatement Commission, City of Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pa. Mr. Duane, do you have a prepared statement?

STATEMENT OF MORRIS DUANE, CHAIRMAN, SMOKE ABATEMENT COMMISSION, CITY OF PHILADELPHIA, PHILADELPHIA, PA.

Mr. DUANE. Yes, I have a prepared statement, but I would like to file it and just talk informally.

The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed in any way you care to. If you would like to file your statement and talk extemporaneously we would be delighted to have you do so. The statement will be inserted at the conclusion of your remarks.

Mr. DUANE. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. I was up in your city last night, on a television program, and left there at 10 o'clock.

Mr. DUANE. I was down here in Washington, and I didn't have the pleasure of seeing you.

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose you proceed in your own way.

Mr. DUANE. First, I might say my name is Morris Duane. I am a lawyer by profession, but I am appearing here as chairman of the Air Pollution Control Board of the city of Philadelphia.

That board was created by the Philadelphia City Charter to advise the mayor and the department of health on air pollution problems, and to make regulations for air pollution control. The members of the board serve without compensation.

I think it would be interesting that as evidence of the nonpartisan character of air pollution-control programs, that a majority of the members of this board, including myself, are registered Republicans, serving on this board in the administration of a mayor who was elected on the Democratic ticket, although with the support of several hundred thousand registered Republicans.

The CHAIRMAN. That is what one would expect in the City of Brotherly Love.

Mr. DUANE. It is working this time. It hasn't always in the past, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. You are making progress.

Mr. DUANE. Another evidence of the nonpartisan support for air pollution control is the fact that 2 months ago Philadelphia adopted a new air pollution control ordinance. My friend, Randy Hamilton, of the American Municipal Association, tells me that this is the best air pollution control ordinance in the United States, and I believe that is so. The vote on this ordinance in city council was 17 to 0, all members of both parties voting in favor of it.

The ordinance was also supported by the Greater Philadelphia Movement, the Chamber of Commerce of Greater Philadelphia, the Pennsylvania Economy League, labor groups, health groups, and many more.

I would like, if I may, to make five principal points:

First, that the air pollution situation in cities is a very serious problem, both for health and property.

Second, that air pollution is a major factor in causing deterioration of cities.

Third, that to correct air pollution requires the expenditure of large sums of money as capital by industry.

Fourth, that the permission to write off rapidly their capital investments will help industry to meet this expense, and that assistance in obtaining loans will help many companies, particularly the smaller and least financially strong companies.

And, fifth, that Federal appropriations for the study of the nature, causes and cures of air pollution, would be most helpful.

Now, on the point that air pollution conditions in cities are serious to health and property, I have brought with me some photographs and newspaper articles, which I would like to have made part of this record.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, all of your articles will be made a part of the record, at the end of your statement.

Mr. DUANE. When this amendment reaches the conference commit

tee, perhaps if some of these newspaper articles and photographs were taken in, it might be helpful.

The Chairman. We cannot place the photographs in the record, but we can place the printed matter in the record. We can keep the photographs as exhibits.

Mr. DUANE. The first one, from the Philadelphia Inquirer, shows the picture of city hall, almost invisible by reason of the smog. The CHAIRMAN. What time of day was this?

Mr. DUANE. I think it was taken in full daylight. I know it was taken in full daylight, but I can't tell you at what time.

The next one shows the Deleware River Bridge, during a smog appearance in Philadelphia, and it is almost obscured by smog and haze.

The next news article about this smog in Philadelphia shows a picture at Juniper and Filbert Street, where the automobiles are practically invisible, although they are only a few hundred yards away. The CHAIRMAN. Is this still in the daytime?

Mr. DUANE. Yes, sir. The news articles will show those pictures were taken in the daytime.

I have another one of Rittenhouse Square in Philadelphia, in the same smog episode.

The CHAIRMAN. We will place each one of those articles in the record.

Mr. DUANE. I would like to emphasize, Senator, if I may, that Philadelphia is by no means the worst city from the point of view of air pollution. Studies have indicated there are many large industrial areas and cities which are much worse. Our efforts at control in Philadelphia have met with considerable success.

The CHAIRMAN. What about just across the river, in Camden. Are they making any effort to eliminate it there?

Mr. DUANE. Camden has a city ordinance which up until now has not been very well enforced. We are making every effort to get the cooperation of Mayor Bruner. We hope that we will have strong cooperation from him.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you agree with me that if the Federal Government enters this picture, a good job will be done throughout the entire United States?

Mr. DUANE. I have no doubt about that.

The CHAIRMAN. It is interstate commerce. I mean you have a situation there where Philadelphia is in Pennsylvania and Camden is in New Jersey. The city officials of Philadelphia can do the best job in the world, but if Camden did nothing, you might improve the situation but you would still have a bad situation.

Mr. DUANE. That is correct. In fact, in Philadelphia it is even worse, because across the river is New Jersey. Immediately south of Philadelphia, in New Jersey, are a number of oil refineries and various manufacturing plants. And when the wind blows slowly from the south, it brings very heavy smoke and fumes from oil refineries and other installations, over Philadelphia. Some of that comes up from the State of Delaware. So, we have a tristate situation in the Philadelphia area.

The CHAIRMAN. I hold in my hand a bill introduced by Hon. Lucio Russo, who will testify here in a moment. He is a member of the New York State Assembly. I believe this bill he introduced in the New

York State Assembly is now law; I believe it has been passed. One of the clauses was this:

This act shall take effect when the State of New Jersey shall make available a similar appropriation for the study and survey authorized by this act.

They recognized in this legislation that they can't do it without New Jersey cooperating. Just across the river from New York is Jersey City with other large cities and factories. Therefore, it becomes definitely a matter that the Federal Government ought to cooperate on, in my opinion.

Mr. DUANE. I think that is definitely correct, sir.

Without naming them all, sir, I would like to file some photographs, which show the burning in city dumps. You can see the smoke going over the city of Philadelphia. The city of Philadelphia is spending $5 million to construct incinerators over the next 2 years, with the expectation that when that is done there will be no more burning in open dumps of refuse.

These other photographs, without detailing them-I would like to file them-show very heavy smoke over the city.

The CHAIRMAN. You may file them, and they will remain on file here, for the use of the committee, when we start writing up the legislation.

Mr. DUANE. Thank you.

Now, with respect to damaged property, I had a client come into my office to see me the other day, who said he had spent $1,300 to have his house painted, and in 5 months the paint job was completely rained. We are making a tremendous effort in Philadelphia to rebuild the city, and we think that the great challenge, domestically, of the second half of the 20th century, is to revive and restore our cities as the best possible places to live. That cannot possibly be done, in our judgment, without some control of these fumes and smoke and other things which pollute the air.

The CHAIRMAN. We have spent hours and hours and weeks and weeks here on slum clearance and blighted areas. We have in this proposed legislation, as we have had in past legislation, much on the subject, and we have appropriated literally billions of dollars. I am thoroughly convinced that you cannot eliminate a slum, a blighted area, in a city until you first eliminate the smoke and dust. Otherwise, you will just go in and build a new building, and within 6 months or a year it will be again a blighted or a slum area.

Mr. DUANE. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. So why we do not-meaning the Federal Government and the cities and the counties-take the necessary steps to eliminate the very thing that causes slums and blighted areas is something I shall never understand.

Mr. DUANE. I don't either, sir. Your point is definitely proved in Philadelphia, because the 2 parts of the city where the worst industrial smoke is have shown a steady decline in population over the last 15 years. That shows that as long as you have these smoke conditions, people will move out of those areas, move out of the city, the city will deteriorate, and for all the money which the Federal Government has put in, in helping slum clearance, and so forth, you won't get full value.

The CHAIRMAN. That is right. It will be a blighted area again. Isn't it a fact that the new steel mill north of Philadelphia, just south of Trenton, has no smoke? Is that correct?

Mr. DUANE. They have spent several million dollars in installing smoke-control equipment, and they claim that, as far as is scientifically possible with the present state of the art, they have eliminated it. The CHAIRMAN. You have been up there?

Mr. DUANE. Yes, I have been through there.
The CHAIRMAN. Do they have smoke?

Mr. DUANE. Yes, sir; they have some smoke that comes out of their rolling mill, and they have some little smoke out of their blast furnaces. The CHAIRMAN. What is it in comparison to what it would have been had they not spent the money, when they built it, designed it, around the fact that they were going to eliminate 90 percent or more of the smoke?

Mr. DUANE. It is a very, very small fraction of what it would have been if they hadn't put that in.

The CHAIRMAN. Isn't it a fact that now people are living in close proximity of the mill, with clean clothes and painted houses, that are not deteriorating?

Mr. DUANE. I can't honestly say that, because I haven't seen the houses, but people are living very close to the mill and the mill itself is quite close to Trenton. They have Levittown, which has become one of the first 10 cities in Pennsylvania within the last 2 years, and that is right next to the mill.

It is the same thing that United States Steel and other steel companies did in Pittsburgh, which cleared up that situation.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you this: There will be no question about the city of Philadelphia cooperating with the Federal Government on any legislation or help that the Federal Government might care to offer?

Mr. DUANE. None whatsoever. Absolutely.

The CHAIRMAN. You understand that if the Federal Government does enter this field through legislation, it will be on the basis of course that the cities must cooperate and take the necessary first steps, and do certain things. Otherwise, the Federal Government will not participate with them. In fact, the Federal Government could not participate with them unless they were willing to cooperate.

You have no fear but what the cities would cooperate with the Federal Government.

Mr. DUANE. No, sir. I think if the Federal Government were to attempt to take over what the cities felt were their part of the job, there would be some hesitation.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the farthest from our minds. But, as far as this bill goes, what we want the Federal Government to do is to do that which the cities can't possibly do for themselves, because it is interstate and because they just don't have the money to do certain things.

Here is the situation, you see, where it must all be done practically at the same time. You can't have this one fellow eliminate his smoke today, and have the other fellow wait. It all has to be done over a comparatively short period of time, which requires considerable planning and considerable investment.

Mr. DUANE. I understand, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. But I think it would be an investment at the moment which would create jobs. It looks to me as though we will need jobs; in fact, we need many of them today.

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