Senator WILLIAMS. We generally think of public housing as pretty much exclusively in the vast metropolitan areas. I wonder if that is a fact, Mrs. McGuire, or whether you are going to smaller communities.

Mrs. MCGUIRE. There is a trend the other way actually, Senator, and I have the figures here if you would like to hear them, by populations.

Actually today there are 1,028 localities with populations under 5,000 that have local housing authorities. Then in the population range of 5,000 to 25,000, we have 625 housing authorities. And over 25,000, including large metropolitan areas, 392.

Over the last 3 years there has been an increase in the number of local housing authorities, almost 400, and the majority of these again are in the smaller areas rather than in the large.

You may be interested to know that the two greatest areas of growth of the small town use of this program have been the Midwest and the South, Southeast.

Senator WILLIAMS. I recall one year Alabama led the list in agencies and applications.

Senator SPARKMAN. I think Georgia and Texas were leaders. Mrs. MCGUIRE. You are being hard pushed today. Nebraska is ahead of all of you.

Senator TOWER. Are these small towns ordinarily located close to the larger towns?

Mrs. MCGUIRE. Not necessarily.

Senator TOWER. Or are they far separated?

Mrs. MCGUIRE. They are a wide range. I was about to say that the biggest growth has taken place in the State of Nebraska where we have 50 new housing authorities in the last year and a half, and these are quite far separated.

Senator SPARKMAN. By the way, it would be interesting to know what State does have the greatest number of projects.

Mrs. MCGUIRE. I think I have that here. Just a moment. Texas I looked up, Senator. That was No. 7. But let me see on all of them.

Senator SPARK MAN. I think it is the State of Georgia.

Mrs. MCGUIRE. I thought I had it.

Senator SPARKMAN. Would you do this? Would you put a table in the record?

Mrs. MCGUIRE. Yes, indeed.

Senator SPARKMAN. Showing it by States.

(The table and accompanying charts follow:)

Ten States with greatest number of local authorities as of Jan. 31, 1964

Ten States with greatest number of new local authorities, July 1, 1961–

Mrs. MCGUIRE. I have here a list of the new housing authorities, and Texas is the second largest in terms of new formations of housing authorities within the last 3 years.

Senator SPARKMAN. Which was the largest?

Mrs. MCGUIRE. I am talking now only of the new formations of housing authorities, this 400 I spoke of. Texas has the second largest. Arkansas, Texas, Nebraska, Kentucky, Georgia. I can almost relate them because we are watching this so very closely to see the spread of the program in the small town as against the metropolitan area. Senator WILLIAMS. One further question.

Mrs. MCGUIRE. We have 34 new ones in Texas in the last 2 years. Senator SPARKMAN. Senator Williams.

Senator WILLIAMS. Just one further question. We, I think, successfully legislated a certain drabness into the design and the structures of public housing with a requirement that they not be extravagant or elaborate or something like that. And I thought that it just produced less than the best.

I do not suggest that they should be a lot more expensive, but perhaps a little more imagination in design and structure.

Has this been a problem and is it being met?

Mrs. MCGUIRE. Yes, it has been a problem, and we have gone through different points of view with respect to public housing ranging from almost the poorhouse concept to something which we think today-that public housing like all housing should be an asset to a community.

Now, we have attempted to improve this over the last 2 years, Senator, by holding a series of seminars on design, on the development of good living environments. We do not believe it is necessarily any more expensive. It is a matter, I believe, of emphasis.

We have attempted to give the local architects more flexibility by removing a number of the required standards of the past and now having them advisory only.

We have also used, when it was necessary to do so, some rather outstanding consultants to us in terms of very difficult and unusual types of sites and their development in order to do the kind of thing that Dr. Weaver spoke of earlier-retaining an interest in contour and what the site offers in its natural state and thereby enriching a living environment beyond the buildozing effect.

So we are making, I think, some very real progress in this area. Dr. WEAVER. Senator Williams, I might add this is not restricted to PHA, because a couple of months ago, if it has been that long, the FHA for the first time at its annual awards where we picked outstanding design in our FHA program, both the multifamily and single family, had a distinguished group of judges and a very interesting and I think successful occasion when these were made.

And, of course, in recent years the urban renewal agency, both through the speeches of Commissioner Slayton and my own few remarks on this, and through our action, have encouraged competitions so as to get some outstanding design, and we have gotten some remarkable things. The Golden Gate project in San Francisco. This complex of public buildings in Boston. And only recently in New York there was a $10,000 or $15,000 competition for a middle-income