Agency records reveal that at its peak, there
were 67 authorized Schedule C positions as of
August 1973. At that time, there were 47 employees
on board in those positions. As of March 31, 1977,
there were 6 employees occupying Schedule C positions.
The following is a listing of the 47 employees by
position, title and grade as of August 27, 1973.

Mr. OBEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. CONTE. Mr. Chairman, before you close the record, I want to take the opportunity to congratulate and compliment Mrs. Olivarez again, and, in reviewing her resume closely, I note we both received an honorary degree together at Amherst College which is in my district, in 1973.

MS. OLIVAREZ. Yes, sir, it was in 1973.

Mr. Patten. We will take a five-minute recess.

(Brief recess.)

Mr. MICHEL (presiding). I will resume the session. Other members will be coming back after the quorum call is over, but we might save ourselves some time if we proceed now.

ENERGY CONSERVATION

Doctor, I said that when I had concluded the first part of my questioning that I wanted to get back to this issue of the $200 million for fuel subsidies, which has now grown to $400 million, and we keep hearing figures as to the projected numbers of households likely to have their fuel cut off.

What I would like to know is how many households last winter actually went without heat for any length of time by having their fuel cut off?

MS. OLIVAREZ. We asked the regional offices to give us an estimate by dealing with the State offices and the local CAP agencies to give us a rough estimate of how many households were going into the winter with gas or fuel shutoffs, lack of delivery or lack of natural gas available to them, and if I remember correctly the figures, we were estimating that it would reach in the neighborhood of four million persons that would be going

Mr. MICHEL. How do you get estimates like that? Two and two makes four, and 500,000 times eight makes 4 million. But you know, I just cannot make a good judgment up here by that kind of flim-flam computation. You have got to be able to tell me how many people actually had their fuel cut off last year as a result of not being able to pay their bills.

I keep hearing that argument that it is being done wholesale, and that is why we have to have this bill.

I bet you can't give me 100.

MS. OLIVAREZ. One hundred households?

Mr. MICHEL. Right.

Ms. OLIVAREZ. I think we could for the record. [The information follows:]

As a result of last year's program being approved so late, we did not feel it important to impose special reporting requirements to identify the number of households assisted who previously had their utilities shut-off. In discussing this matter with the state administering agencies, we feel safe in estimating that 30 percent (or 300,000 households) of all households assisted had their utilities shut-off during the heating season. This figure does not include the number of households who would have had their utilities shut-off had they not paid their bills at the expense of being deprived of other essentials. Nor does it include the number of households we were unable to assist due to shortage of available funds and the short duration of the program.

Mr. MICHEL. There should be a lot more than that.

The fact is that that is not a valid argument to use. I remember they made a big to-do about the elderly lady in Pittsburgh who