6. As an example, we cite the 430-mile route between Chicago and Minneapolis. In 1962, Illinois observed central daylight time from April 29 until October 28. Wisconsin observed central daylight time from April 29 until September 30. Minnesota observed central daylight time from May 27 until September 2. In each State, some schedules are adjusted 1 hour for daylight (thus do not physically change) and others stay with the clock (and thereby advance one hour). Many schedules must connect.

7. Example of a teletype exchange between carrier divisions:

"V H Switzer POM; WH Egger SET-FYI; as of this morning, which areas and towns in Oregon are on daylight time; C. Kimball, April 30, 1962.”

"C. Kimball SFGO; WH Egger SET-FYI; Ur K-25. Multnomah, Wash. Clackamas, Columbia, and Hood River Counties officially and parts of 13 other counties scattered throughout Oregon switched to daylight time effective 2 a.m. April 29. Salem and Springfield were only major Willamette Valley towns to stay on standard time. Eugene, Albany, Corvallis, Newberg, McMinnville, switched to daylight time. Northern Oregon beaches including Seaside and Astoria also on daylight time.

"Southern Oregon on standard time and eastern Oregon-Bend, Redmond, Madras, Prinville, and Burns on daylight time. Baker, Oreg. will go on daylight time May 27. Remaining on standard time are Pendleton, Lakeview, and LaGrande. H. F. Burrows, April 30, 1962.”

8. Example scheduling difficulties and urban traffic congestion for another area: "We have a 4:00 p.m. departure from San Francisco to New York. This trip is set to get out of the bay area ahead of the rush hour for better running time, and afford good early evening times east from the Sacramento area, 2 hours later. If this trip converted, like the others, it would be bogged down in rush hour traffic at the bay area, and then upon reaching Sacramento, it would draw patrons away from our night runs. In this case, we change the schedule an hour all the way from Nevada to the Mississippi River.”

9. Example mail handling difficulties for the Post Office Department: "Where it is necessary for mail to be transferred from bus to a rail carrier at certain locations, this presents time problems because of the fact that our schedules are on daylight time and the rails are on standard time.

"In cases where there is no transfer from bus to rail carriers, the problem of the on-hour time difference is not too acute, although it certainly does cause considerable planning and research by both carriers and the Post Office."

10. Example intracompany communications adversely affected:

Between southeastern and northeastern teletype locations, 1 hour of the business day is lost; and between the Kansas City general office and Chicago headquarters, 1 hour of the business day is lost.

11. Problems attributable to reverse effects of time change variations are numerous. (Example: Between September 30 and October 28, it takes 50 minutes to get from Chicago to Milwaukee, 2 hours, 50 minutes from Milwaukee to Chicago in terms of the clock and useful business time.)

12. "Another adverse effect has come about since the advent of through buses, where we have tied numerous schedules together in through operation. There are cases where a through bus must be broken into separate schedules because certain segments cannot be converted in daylight time zones. The through rider not only cannot stay on the same bus, but cannot make ideal conections."

Senator MCGEE. I suppose, with the mobility that the people now have, that even on the commercial conveyances, bus, aircraft, airports, and what, three-fourths of our people would be so affected in the course of a year? Does anybody have any figures on that? Mr. TRICE. It would be quite a bit, because

Senator MCGEE. Does three-fourths seem like an unreasonable fraction? I just pulled that off the top of the head.

Mr. TRICE. I think it is reasonable, because all your heavily populated areas have advance time, take the Northeast, California area, Washington, and Middle West, Chicago area.

Senator MCGEE. How about the automobile? Does the individual in a car have control of that time factor himself?

Mr. TRICE. Virginia, I guess has had as confusing a situation as any State. I remember when we had hearings down in Virginia Leg

islature, people in automobiles who would drive up to one of our shrines would get there too late or too early to visit the shrine, or get to a restaurant before it opened up, so it affects people in automobiles. Senator MCGEE. They are also affected by the lack of time uniformity.

Would you have any opinion you could express on which Federal department or agency should administer the provisions of the Uniform Time Act?

Mr. TRICE. I don't think we would have any preference.

Senator MCGEE. I would expect someone to come along to suggest that it be a new Federal bureau and be given Cabinet status, and then I would hope that no one would seriously do so, but you know, stranger things have happened.

Does the Senator from Michigan have any questions?
Senator HART. No.

Senator MCGEE. Thank you very much, Mr. Trice.

Mr. TRICE. Thank you.

Senator MCGEE. Our next witness is the Honorable Tom Frost, member of the Virginia House of Delegates.

Senator HART. Mr. Chairman, in addition to my general interest in this area, my presence this morning reflects my interest in hearing Tom Frost. I am a weekend resident of Fauquier County, Va. Mr. Frost is the distinguished representative of the Virginia House of Delegates from that county. He has lectured to me on this subject many times and I wanted to have the benefit of it while he was on the record, too.

Tom and I disagree basically over certain questions that regionally divide this country but it is conceivable that we will agree on time. Senator MCGEE. Are you suggesting that if we change the time index, that it will eliminate these regional differences that you have? Senator HART. I still think that while people will know what time it is for lunch, they will not always be able to eat it.

Senator McGEE. Proceed.

STATEMENT OF HON. TOM FROST, MEMBER OF THE VIRGINIA HOUSE OF DELEGATES

Mr. FROST. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, I think this morning both Senator Hart and myself had to drive through bootleg time to get here. The State of Virginia time bill, which starts on Memorial Day and ends on Labor Day has not been observed in two of our neighboring counties. That is Prince William and Loudoun, so we had to come through Prince William this morning on bootleg time, but we got here.

I would like to present to the committee house joint resolutions of the Virginia General Assembly, Nos. 52 and 53, which were passed by the general assembly. Governor Harrison has requested that the council on State governments cooperate with house joint resolutions 52 and 53 and the State government council has agreed.

It is my understanding that Congress does not have the authority to appoint-I am no lawyer

Senator MCGEE. You say you are not a lawyer?

Mr. FROST. No, sir.

Senator MCGEE. Let me welcome you to the rank of nonlawyers. We are a small group but we hope we are growing.

Mr. FROST. I am just a country boy.

Senator COTTON. I would add to that there are a lot of Members of our body, both branches of our body, that are members of the bar, but not necessarily lawyers. [Laughter.]

Mr. FROST. We have trouble with lawyers down in Richmond, too, every once in a while.

It is our understanding, from a lawyer, that the Congress does not have authority to give any Government agency the authority to regulate time. I may be wrong, but the opinion of this attorney was that it is up to the Congress to make this regulation. It is impossible for the States to regulate time.

Virginia, with all of our time bills last year-we had three or four of them-we find that Tennessee has a law that it is illegal to use daylight saving time. North Carolina is the same way. Four-fifths of the border of Virginia are on standard time and yet the Washington area is daylight saving time and we are right in the middle where we are just in a mess all the time.

I would like to present these resolutions. May I read them without all of the top and bottom?

Senator MCGEE. If you want to read them or summarize them, you may do so and we will put them in the record in full.

Mr. FROST. It is just about four or five lines without all of the title:

Resolved by the house of delegates, the senate concurring, That the States are hereby requested to prescribe what time shall be applicable in the eastern time zone of the United States and that if different times are to prevail at different times of the year, then to establish the periods during which such different. times shall be observed.

This was primarily for the eastern time zone, but we would like now to require it to be national. We are appearing here that way. A second resolution was passed asking the other States if they would ask Congress to accomplish the same thing. That is all, sir, that we have in Virginia. We just ask that you end this [holding up a placard reading "Confused Time"] and that you establish [holding up a placard reading "Uniform Time"]. I will leave those two placards with you.

If you will just end this confusion and establish_uniform time, the State of Virginia will be most appreciative and I am sure Senator Hart will too. Thank you, sir.

Senator MCGEE. Thank you very much.

Senator HART. Mr. Frost has made very clear to persons who stop on that Warrenton bypass his deep concern and his interest and his conviction that here at least is one area where action by the Federal Government will not be viewed as intrusion on the Old Dominion. Thank you very

Mr. FROST. This is one time we will excuse it. much.

(The resolutions follow:)

HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION No. 52

Requesting the Congress of the United States to prescribe what time shall be legal in the eastern time zone

OFFERED FEBRUARY 2, 1962

Patrons: Messrs. Frost, Daniel, J. H., Locher, Anderson, M. G., Moore, G. S., Carneal, Holland, Smith, W. R., Allen, Shreves, Adams, Cochran, Hudgins, Daniel, W. C., Hill, Hodges, Gibson, White, P. B., and Davis, D.

REFERRED TO THE COMMITTEE ON RULES

Whereas a great deal of confusion has arisen concerning daylight time and eastern standard time in the eastern time zone; and

Whereas attempts by the States to regulate this matter are likely to cause more confusion and, in a matter as important as this, uniformity is highly desirable: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved by the house of delegates, the senate concurring, That the Congress of the United States is hereby requested to prescribe what time shall be applicable in the eastern time zone of the United States and, if different times are to prevail at different times of the year, then to establish the periods during which such different times shall be observed.

Resolved further, That the clerk of the house of delegates is hereby directed to send copies of this resolution to the members of the Virginia delegation in the Congress of the United States.

HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION No. 53

Requesting the legislatures of the several States in the eastern time zone to request the Congress of the United States to prescribe what time shall be legal in the eastern time zone

OFFERED FEBRUARY 2, 1962

Patrons: Messrs. Frost, Daniel, J. H., Locher, Anderson, M. G., Moore, G. S., Carneal, Holland, Smith, W. R., Allen, Shreves, Adams, Cochran, Hudgins, Daniel, W. C., Hill, Hodges, Gibson, White, P. B., and Davis, D.

REFERRED TO THE COMMITTEE ON RULES

Whereas a great deal of confusion has arisen concerning daylight time and eastern standard time in the eastern time zone; and

Whereas attempts by the States to regulate this matter are likely to cause more confusion, and, in a matter as important as this, uniformity is highly desirable; and

Whereas the General Assembly of Virginia has, by resolution, requested the Congress of the United States to prescribe what time shall be applicable in the eastern time zone of the United States, and, if different times are to prevail at different times of the year, then to establish the periods during which such different times shall be observed: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved by the house of delegates, the senate concurring, That the States in the eastern time zone of the United States are hereby requested to adopt a resolution requesting the Congress to prescribe what time shall be applicable in the eastern time zone of the United States, and, if different times are to prevail, to establish the periods during which such different times shall be observed.

Resolved further, That the clerk of the house of delegates is directed to send copies of this resolution to the States in the eastern time zone of the United States.

Senator MCGEE. Mr. Roeper is the next witness. Would you take the stand, please?

STATEMENT OF P. M. ROEPER, VICE PRESIDENT, TRANSPORTATION AND MAINTENANCE, PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD, PHILADELPHIA, PA.; ACCOMPANIED BY B. J. VIVIANO, ASSISTANT VICE PRESIDENT, PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD

Mr. ROEPER. My name is Park M. Roeper. I am vice president, transportation and maintenance, of the Pennsylvania Railroad with headquarters at Philadelphia, Pa. I am appearing as a witness for the Association of American Railroads (AAR), representing the railroad industry in support of uniform time within standard time zones. The association is a voluntary association of railroad companies operating over 95 percent of the total railroad mileage and having operating revenues of approximately 98 percent of the total railroad operating revenues of all railroads in the United States.

I have been employed by the Pennsylvania Railroad for 35 years, the last 21 years of which have been in various transportation supervisory capacities including those of division superintendent at Sunbury, Pa., Fort Wayne, Ind., Altoona, Pa., and New York, N.Y. I also served as regional manager at New York. In those capacities my responsibilities included the management of both passenger and freight operations, including ticket sales, operation of reservation and information bureaus, as well as the general supervision of train operations. From 1957 to 1959, I was general manager of transportation responsible for both passenger and freight operations over the entire Pennsylvania system and since 1959 I have been vice president, transportation and maintenance, responsible for system activities in the area of transportation, maintenance of equipment, maintenance of way and property protection, and to develop and recommend company policies designed to provide the most economic transportation service which will meet the requirements of patrons.

The past 21 years have brought me in close contact with details of operations and afforded an opportunity for close contact with our passengers and shippers and receivers of freight.

The board of directors of the AAR, by action taken March 1, 1963, resolved the industry position favoring uniformity of time within standard time zones after taking full cognizance of the general confusion that has resulted from the increasing trend of areas within time zones to establish variations to suit their own likings and the further complexing of the situation by communities in changing to or from daylight time on different dates.

The problem is not only one of confusion-public inconvenience and unnecessary economic waste also result from the lack of uniform regulation of time. I shall elaborate further on these generalities with specific examples based on my personal experience.

The lack of uniform observance of time standards within the zones and the requirement that railroads be required to operate on standard time the year around, whereas political bodies change from standard time to daylight saving time to suit their own preferences, presents a recurring expense at each time change and for the duration, result ing in considerable confusion between the public and railroads.

Expensewise the railroads must reprint most of their employee timetables solely for the purpose of advancing the time in these timetables 1 hour so as to provide the same train service on people's time during