rience that some of its procedural provisions have undercut the administrative process. It is important that the necessities of the administrative process be preserved against too distant a swing of the pendulum-a swing which would overemphasize procedural rights to the sacrifice of the facility and expertness of the administrative process and the public interest. (Whereupon, at 12:18 p.m., the committee adjourned, to reconvene at 9:30 a.m., Thursday, June 18, 1959.) MAJOR ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS PROBLEMS (Federal Power Commission) THURSDAY, JUNE 18, 1959 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SPECIAL SUBCOMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT OF THE COMMITTEE ON INTERSTATE The special subcommittee met at 9:30 a.m., pursuant to recess, in room 1334, House Office Building. Present Representatives Harris (presiding), Mack of Illinois, Rogers of Texas, Flynt, Moss, Bennett of Michigan, Springer, Derounian, Devine, Dollinger, and Hemphill. Also present: Robert W. Lishman, counsel to the subcommittee; Beverly M. Coleman, subcommittee attorney; Herman Clay Beasley, subcommittee clerk; and Jack Marshall Stark, minority counsel. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. The committee arranged for the panel discussion of the various major regulatory agencies of the Government for a specific purpose. That purpose was outlined by me as chairman in behalf of the committee at the opening session on Monday morning, June 15. Therefore, I presume you gentlemen of the panel are already familiar with the purposes of the panel discussion and what we are trying, objectively, to accomplish. You received a letter, each of you, as to the nature of the program and the four points that we felt would get to the heart of the problem under consideration. This committee in the last Congress had an extensive investigation, out of which came what we thought to be deficiencies in the law, and also as to the procedures in the operation of the major regulatory agencies of the Government. Gentlemen, we are seeking to plug the loopholes and to correct the deficiencies in the interest of the American people. In doing so, it is our hope to ultimately strengthen the arms of these independent regulatory agencies who, as you know, virtually control the economy of the country and the everyday lives of all the people in the country. Today we are taking the Federal Power Commission. We have already had the Civil Aeronautics Board and the Federal Communications Commission. In my humble judgment, we have had a very helpful and fine, frank discussion of views on the problems involved. I want to extend a welcome to each of you for your appearance here. I want to express the thanks and appreciation on behalf of the committee and the American people, and their interests, in your willing 45253-59-13 ness to come here to express your views on these matters that we have tried to outline and point up that would reach the heart of the problem. At this time I call attention to the fact that I have previously offered for the record a list of the names and addresses of all of the panelists who, in response to the invitation of the Special Subcommittee on Legislative Oversight, will attend and participate in our discussion meetings. This list, together with the "Revised Outline of Proposed Panel Discussion," containing a schedule of the meetings, which was sent to each of the panelists, will be reproduced at the end of the printed record for ready reference purposes. We have a procedure of permitting someone from the agency involved to make a brief statement, and then we open it up to you gentlemen as panelists, representing not only the Government, but the industry involved in the regulation by the particular agency, as well as the practitioners who appear before that agency. So with that explanation, we will lead off with the Chairman of the Federal Power Commission. Are you going to discuss topic I, Mr. Chairman? Mr. KUYKENDALL. Yes. I cover three topics in my statement. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. I think it might be advisable to throw all three in at one time, because invariably we get to crossing over lines, or we have thus far in the discussions, back and forth. Mr. Chairman, we are glad to have you here. Before we start with your brief statement opening the matter up, we will have identification of the panel for the record, starting with you, if you do not mind. MEMBERS OF THE PANEL FEDERAL POWER COMMISSION REPRESENTATIVES: JEROME K. KUYKENDALL, CHAIRMAN; WILLARD W. GATCHELL, GENERAL COUNSEL; CARL T. KALLINA, CHIEF OF BUREAU OF RATES AND GAS CERTIFICATES; AND EDWARD B. MARSH, CHIEF HEARING EXAMINER PRACTICING ATTORNEYS: RANDALL J. LeBOEUF, JR., NEW YORK, N.Y.; J. DAVID MANN, ROBERT E. MAY, BRADFORD ROSS, AND RICHARD J. CONNOR, OF WASHINGTON, D.C. INDUSTRY REPRESENTATIVES: C. WILLIAM COOPER, CONSOLIDATED NATURAL GAS CO., NEW YORK; C. P. RATHER, SOUTHERN NATURAL GAS CO., BIRMINGHAM, ALA.; ROBERT E. LEE HALL, GENERAL COUNSEL, NATIONAL COAL ASSOCIATION, AND SECRETARY OF FUELS RESEARCH COUNCIL, WASHINGTON, D.C.; AND LESLIE T. FOURNIER, VICE PRESIDENT AND TREASURER, PANHANDLE EASTERN PIPELINE CO, NEW YORK, N.Y. Mr. KUYKENDALL. Mr. Chairman, my name is Jerome K. Kuykendall, Chairman of the Federal Power Commission. Mr. GATCHELL. Willard W. Gatchell, General Counsel of the Federal Power Commission. Mr. KALLINA. Carl T. Kallina, Chief, Bureau of Rates and Gas Certificates of the Federal Power Commission. Mr. MARSH. Edward B. Marsh, Chief Hearing Examiner of the Federal Power Commission. Mr. Ross. I am Bradford Ross, in private practice before the Commission. Mr. MAY. Robert E. May, practicing attorney before the Commission. The CHAIRMAN. Will you give your addresses? We want to get that into the record. Mr. Ross. My address is 725 15th Street NW., Washington, D.C. Mr. MAY. 1700 K Street NW., Washington, D.C. Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, I am J. David Mann., Jr., a practicing attorney in Washington, 1230 Pennsylvania Building, here in the District. Mr. LFBOEUF. Randall J. LeBoeuf, Jr., 15 Broad Street, New York City. Mr. COOPER. C. W. Cooper, 30 Rockefeller Plaza, New York, N.Y. I am a practicing attorney and general counsel for Consolidated Natural Gas Co. Mr. HALL. Robert E. Lee Hall, general counsel of the National Coal Association, also representing Fuels Research Council, with offices at 802 Southern Building, Washington, D.C. Mr. RATHER. C. P. Rather, president, Southern Natural Gas Co., Watts Building, Birmingham, Ala. Mr. FOURNIER. Leslie T. Fournier, 120 Broadway, New York, Panhandle Eastern Pipeline. Mr. CONNOR. Richard J. Connor, 821 15th Street NW., a practitioner before the Federal Power Commission. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, gentlemen. Mr. Chairman, you may proceed. Mr. KUYKENDALL. Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, may I express to the subcommittee the sincere appreciation of the members and staff of the Federal Power Commission for the opportunity to appear at this stage of your consideration of the problems and procedures of administrative agencies. Your chief counsel, by outlining in some detail the program which your subcommittee has arranged, has materially assisted us in our work of preparing our presentation. I note from the statements of Chairman Harris that you desire the individual views of the panel participants, rather than the official views of the Commission. I am, therefore, speaking for myself, and not on behalf of the Federal Power Commission. TOPIC I Let us first discuss the matter of improper influence and the preservation of necessary access by the Commission to information from the public, the regulated industry, and others. For many years, the Commission has governed appearances in proceedings by section 1.4 of its rules, a copy of which I have marked as exhibit A and attached to this written statement. (Exhibit A above referred to follows:) EXHIBIT A 1.4 APPEARANCES AND PRACTICE BEFORE THE COMMISSION (a) Appearances. (1) Participants may appear in any proceeding in person or by an attorney or other qualified representative. An individual may appear in his own behalf, a member of a partnership may represent the partnership, a bona fide officer of a corporation, trust, association or organized group may represent the corporation, trust, association or group, and an officer or employee of a State commission, of a department or political subdivision of a State or other governmental authority, may represent the State commission or the department or political subdivision of the State or other governmental authority, in any proceeding. (2) Any person compelled to appear or voluntarily testifying or making a statement before the Commission or the presiding officer, may be accompanied, repre sented and advised by an attorney or other qualified representative. (3) All persons appearing before the Commission or the presiding officer must conform to the standards of ethical conduct required of practitioners before the Courts of the United States, and where applicable, to the requirements of section 12(i) of the Public Utility Holding Company Act of 1935 (49 Stat. 825; 15 U.S.C. 797 (i)). (4) Any person appearing before or transacting business with the Commission in a representative capacity may be required by the Commission or the presiding officer to file evidence of his authority to act in such capacity. (b) Suspension. (1) After hearing the Commission may disqualify and deny, temporarily or permanently, the privilege of appearing or practicing before it in any way to any person who is found (i) not to possess the requisite qualifications to represent others, or (ii) to have engaged in unethical or improper professional conduct, or (iii) otherwise to be not qualified. (2) Contumacious conduct at any hearing before the Commission or a presiding officer shall be ground for exclusion of any person from such hearing and for summary suspension for the duration of the hearing by the Commission or the presiding officer. (c) Appearances of former employees. No person having served as a member, officer, expert, examiner, attorney, accountant, engineer, or other employee of the Federal Power Commission may practice before or act as attorney, expert witness, or representative in connection with any proceeding or matter before the Commission which such person has handled, investigated, advised or participated in the consideration thereof while in the service of the Commission unless he be expressly authorized by the Commission on a verified showing that such participation would not be contrary to the public interest and would not be unethical or prejudicial to the interests of the Commission. [Paragraph (c) amended by Order 175, 19 F.R. 5213, Aug. 18, 1954 and Order 184, 21 F.R. 1047, Feb, 1956] Mr. KUYKENDALL. You will notice in section 1.4(a) (3) that the Commission imposes conformance to the standards of ethical conduct. required of practitioners before the courts of the United States. There is a tendency on the part of some people to lose sight of some of the basic differences between courts and regulatory agencies such as the Federal Power Commission and the other agencies concerning which these hearings are being held. Courts have the duty of deciding controversies between parties. Regulatory commissions frequently have that responsibility, but also have the duty of examining and testing the applications and contentions of members of the regulated industries and other interested parties, and arriving at decisions which fairly decide the rights of the parties and are not only sustainable on the record, but are in the public interest under the criteria established by Congress. The interstate electric and interstate natural gas companies for which Congress has provided these regulatory controls are generally |