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taken place necessarily. The Warden to whom allusion has been made, Dr. Duchesneau, succeeded for a time, as my hon. friend has stated, in managing the affairs of the Penitentiary successfully. Complaints were made against him, which were duly investigated, and the result was that the Minister of Justice felt it necessary that the Warden should be dismissed. Whether the Minister of Justice was right or wrong in coming to that decision is the subject on which the hon. gentleman dilated. My hon. friend believed that he was right, and that the evidence justified the Warden's dismissal. In another place hon. members expressed the belief that the Minister of Justice was wrong in so deciding, and that the investigation should not have been attended with that result, but should have been conducted in some more conclusive manner. But whatever may be the opinion on that point, there is nothing, so far as the Government is concerned, to extenuate or defend. It is always an anxious task to deal with the penitentiaries, and every Minister of Justice is desirous of upholding anyone at the head of the Penitentiary, because it is an onerous, delicate, and responsible position, and one in which the Warden is entitled to the support, so far as it can reasonably be given, of the Minister of Justice. When Dr. Duchesneau was dismissed, it was with great reluctance, and only because in the opinion of the Minister of Justice, the inquiry called for the due administration of the functions of his office. I think, at all events, that that can be said with great safety. I shall not enter further into the discussion. The hon. gentleman assumes that the members of this House know more about this subject than they really do more than I do. I did not hear Mr. Masson's speech, and it is not for me to defend him. I am sure that his character stands so high in the opinion of everybody who now listens to me, that the House will be disposed to form opinions carefully and slowly in the direction that my hon. friend's remarks tended. However, I do not propose to enter into that. I am only sorry that my hon. friend has found it necessary in a discussion in this House to attack an hon. gentleman occu

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pying a distinguished position in the other branch of the Legislature. With regard to the papers themselves, they have been moved for elsewhere, and will probably be brought down there; but if not submitted there they will, if this address is passed, be brought down here. They will probably be produced and go to the Printing Committee, add from the excitement that this affair has occasioned in the Province of Quebec, he ordered to be printed by the Printing Committee. So, I suppose whether they are brought down in answer to this address, or in answer to a similar motion elsowhere, will make no difference — it will serve the object the hon. gentleman has in view. So far as the Government are concerned, we have no objection to the address.

I gave

Hon. Mr. BELLEROSE notice of this motion only after hearing the discussion in the other House. As I had asked for the inquiry, and had pushed it myself, it was thought in the other House that my name could be used freely, and so it was, and members of the other House who used it were quite right in doing so, provided I had a chance to reply. As I could not be heard in the other House, I thought I could, in asking for the papers here, draw attention to the facts, so that at all events the public might have my answer to those who had spoken on the subject in the other House. I may say that I should never have asked for the papers myself, if others had not taken the initiative. Some friends of Dr. Duchesneau having come to me, and reproached me for the harsh manner in which I had treated him, I explained the facts as 1 have stated them to-day. When they heard the whole statement they changed their minds, and asked me for the sake of Dr. Duchesneau's family, not to call for the papers or ask to have them printed, as they would certainly injure Dr. Duchesneau. I said I would not call for them, although Dr. Duchesneau had injured me in every place he had occasion to visit, reporting falsely every thing connected with the inquiry. I did not give this notice, as I have already stated, until after the close of the debate on the subject in the other House, and after the papers asked for had been

granted there. But thought it
was necessary then to bring the matter
up here,
that this House and the
country might have a true statement of
the case.

The motion was agreed to.

PETROLEUM INSPECTION BILL.

THIRD READING.

Hon. Mr. AIKINS moved the third reading of Bill (L)" An Act to amend the Petroleum Inspection Act of 1880." Before the Bill was read the third time

he wished to correct a statement he had

made the other day, in reply to the hon. member from Wallace, that the cost of the instrument for testing petroleum would be $25 or $30 each. He had since learned that the cost would be $15, and the price of the thermometer would bring it up to about $22. They were American instruments, but they were made in Canada and could be purchased at less cost than instruments in the old country.

The Bill was read the third time and passed.

INSPECTION LAW AMENDMENT BILL.

THIRD READING.

The House went into Committee of the Whole on Bill (49) " An Act to amend the Inspection Act of 1874 and the Aets amending it."

Hon. Mr. AIKINS said that when

this measure was last before the House

he spoke of an amendment being made to it to permit pickled fish to be sent from one inspection district to another for the purpose of inspection. That amendment, when placed in his hand, he found was not satisfactory to the trade, and it was thought better to defer it :ntil further information should be obtained He moved the adop

but certain representations had been made to him that it would be very unpopular in the western portion of New Bruns wick, as it would be a special tax on the poor fishermen. He suggested that the inspection law should be extended to apples. The export of apples from the Maritime Provinces was assuming large proportions, but it was found to be a risky business, owing to the fact that there was no guarantee that the barrels contained the quantity or quality represented by the sellers. If the Inspection Act were extended to apples, so as to secure uniformity in the size of the barrels used, and insure that the quality of the fruit is what it is represented to be, it would be a great advantage to shippers, and render the export trade more profitable.

Hon. Mr. REESOR, while admitting that there was an advantage in the inspection of products intended for shipment to foreign markets, considered that, as a rule, inspection of produce for the home markets should be permissive. He did not think the inspection of apples was practicable, because it would involve so much trouble and expense in opening barrels and examining fruit.

Hon. Mr. KAULBACH considered that the inspection of fish was of more benefit to the trade and to the public at large than the small fee charged for inspection. For his part, coming as he did from one of the largest fish exporting counties in Nova Scotia, he felt it was in the interest of fishermen that they should have the privilege of having their fish inspected at whatever place they considered it was best to their advantage. If the fisherman considered that his fish would bring a better price by being inshould have the option of having the inspected at the point of shipment, he spection made then. At present it was a matter open to dispute, and gentlemen Hon. Mr. BOTSFORD objected to interested in the trade held different the compulsory inspection of smoked views on the subject. However, he herring as being a hardship to poor fish-hoped that by the next session of Parliaermen. However, as this Bill was for ment something definite would be decided the purpose of reducing the inspection fee upon in that respect. one-half, it would place them in a better position than they were under the existing law.

in reference to it.
tion of the first clause.

Hon. Mr. DEVER did not wish to be considered as being opposed to this Bill,

Hon. Mr. LEWIN said the measure would have an injurious effect upon the fishermen of the County of Charlotte. There were a large number of fishermen who resided along the Passamaquoddy

Bay for a distance of twenty miles. They | Stephen, that might be relieved from it. last year caught and cured for export However, as the Minister of Inland about 600,000 boxes of herring. If the Revenue had stated, it was a very diffiinspector was obliged to travel up and cult thing to do, and, as long as there was down that twenty miles of coast it would a general law on the Statute book, the be difficult to collect the fees for inspec- fishermen of that district would have to tion, and if the fishermen were obliged to take their chances like the others. He bring their fish to a certain point to be again urged the necessity for compulsory inspected it would be a great hardship to inspection of apples coming in large them, as they were generally poor men. quantities into the cities if it can be If the Government could see their way practically accomplished. to exempt the fishermen of the County of Charlotte from the compulsory inspection, he would not have so much objection

to the measure.

Hon. Mr. AIKINS said that the exaction of an inspection fee on any commodity was rather unpopular to the producer, and experience had shown that permissive inspection was not satisfactory. The point has been raised by my hon. friend from St. John, as to the difficulty of getting an inspector who would travel along the coast to make the inspections. He (Mr. Aikins) supposed the course pursued by inspectors was to appoint agents, who furnished security for the proper performance of their duty. He did not see how the County of Charlotte could be exempted from a law that extended to all the other counties of the Province of New Brunswick. As to the point raised by the hon. gentleman from Lunenburg, the attention of the Department had been called to it; but they did not see how it could be done. Apples could not be handled like fish; it would be troublesome and expensive, and the compulsory inspection of apples was impracticable.

Hon. Mr. SCOTT thought there was some misconception with regard to this Act. The law was not compulsory only in districts where the Government appointed inspectors, and inspectors were only appointed at the request of the local representative. This Bill did not effect the principle of the Inspection Law at all; it was only to reduce the inspection fee.

Hon. Mr. DEVER would not go as far as his hon. colleague from St. John (Mr. Lewin) and say that the whole County of Charlotte should be exempted from the operation of this law, but there was a portion of the County tion opposite Eastport, up as far as St.

the por

Hon. Mr. MILLER could not under

stand what apples had to do with the question before the House. They were not discussing the principle of the inspection law, but an amendment to a comparatively unimportant section of that law. He did not approve of the stringent enactments which now stand on the Statute book in reference to this important subject, and he hoped Parliament would have an opportunity next session of expressing their views on the question. He rose practically to object to the exemption desired to be introduced into the Bill by the hon. gentlemen from New Brunswick. It would be unfair to the people who were engaged in the same business in Nova Scotia if they would be compelled to pay a tax for the inspection of their fish while a section of the neighboring province was permitted to send its fish to market without inspection. The Bill before the House was merely an amelioration of the existing law, as it reduced the fees at present exacted for the inspection of fish.

Hon. Mr. ARCHIBALD, from the Committee, reported the Bill without amendments.

The Bill was then read the third time and passed.

NAPIERVILLE JUNCTION RAILWAY BILL.

THIRD READING.

Hon. Mr. BUREAU moved concur. Select Committee of Railways, Telerence in the amendments made by the graphs and Harbors to Bill (A) "An Act to incorporate the Napierville Junction Railway and Quarry Company."

The motion was agreed to, and the Bill was read the third time and passed.

TEMPERANCE ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. | diańs are temperate in their habits.

SECOND READING.

Hon. Mr. VIDAL moved the second

They are the real temperance men, they are neither drunkards nor total abstainreading of Bill (M) " An Act to explain things of this would without abusing ers. They know how to use the good and further amend the Canada Temper ance Act, 1878, and the Act of 1879 them, and measures of this kind should amending the same." He said: This is emanate, not from wild enthusiasts with the same Bill, with the exception of a extreme prejudices, but from people who can see and reason fairly in temperance. slight alteration, as one which was Those who represent, and will not legisadopted in this House last session. It will be in the memory of hon. gentlemen late fin advance of, public opinion, or that last year the Bill came back to us stamp an act as a crime which public from the House of Commons with a very opinion does not consider immoral, such important clause added to it—a clause are the views of the majority of the population of Canada. The public sentiment so distasteful to the promoter and friends of the Bill in this Chamber that the of the country does not favor those meameasure was thrown out. As the princi-sures, so extremely unpopular and unple involved in that clause has already practicable. Temperance organizations been discussed in the House of Commons, good, but must not be coercive, and are certainly very effective, productive of and disposed of by a negative vote, thus admitting the wisdom of the course pursued by the Senate last year, I presume there will be no difficulty getting your assent to the Bill, and obtaining the amendments which are necessary for the easy working of the existing law. There is no new principle involved in the Bill. It is merely supplying some legislation for parts of the law which are found to

be defective.

[Here the hon. gentleman gave a summary of the details of the Bill, and explained why the amendments were needed.]

exercise an influence over the laws of the

country which does not meet with the approval of the majority in the various sections of the Dominion, and, until we have a clearly recorded majority of the people believing that it is necessary to be total abstainers, laws of this kind must be futile. You cannot force men to be

total abstainers by acts of Parliament. I believe you must educate the people up in moral sentiment, and get a majority of them in favor of the law, otherwise such extreme temperance acts will demoralize the community, and, instead of being a benefit, will only tend to incite the Hon. Mr. KAULBACH I do not people to disregard the laws, to violate see anything particularly objectionable in the laws of the country and bring them this Bill, but really a measure of this into contempt. Why not strike at the nature emanating from my hon. friend is roots the manufacture, the importareceived by me with a great deal of sus-tion, the high places in which wines picion. What reasonable plan on this and other alcoholic beverages are used subject can come from him? His views, temperately? Why not punish the user and the views of gentlemen like himself, of it? Let the public be convinced that are that the use of liquor of itself is a it is a sin to drink wine; if not wrong sin and an evil, no matter how moder- to drink it, it is not wrong to sell it. I ately used. am, and have always been, in favor of temperance laws and regulations to stop the abuse, but not the use, which has existed and will exist for all time.

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are not

Hon. Mr. VIDAL We going into the principle of the law.

Hon. Mr. KAULBACH True, but we should do so. His view is that the use per se is a sin, and the sale of it is consequently a heinous offence. In that, I do not believe the hon. gentleman represents a majority of Canadians. The great mass of temperance men are not total abstainers. The large bulk of the people the vast majority of the Cana

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otherwise, of stimulating liquors, whether spirits, wine or malt, which is quite a different thing. If it even went to the fountain head, the measure would have my perfect concurrence. It was said in old times that the laws were like spiders' webs which got the small flies, and let the large ones go through. And that is the case with these temperance laws. Take the case of Halifax. Her trade from the West Indies is chiefly in sugar, rum and molasses. Rum is brought in large cargoes and stored on the wharves, and sold by the wholesale merchants to the retail dealers, whose shop, in many cases, is at the head of the wharf. You

crush out the small dealer and impose heavy fines on him if this law goes into operation, which subjects their wives and children, in some cases, to poverty, while the rich man imports the liquor in large quantites, and escapes any punishment. You may say we cannot attack that trade, because there is a revenue derived from it. I doubt the morality of that; and, if the Dominion derives a benefit from the import duty, does not the city derive benefit from licenses paid by the retail dealers? The use of liquors is allowed by the Bible. Medical men order it in some

cases.

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A great benefit is frequently derived from its use. For my own part, I think a man who is overworked requires stimulants. Now, if you would be consistent and pass a law by which, not only the man who gets drunk, but the person who supplies him with the liquor, whether he imbibes it with his legs under the mahogany of a gentleman or over the counter of a log hut, should be fined, you would soon see an improvement; but, when you content yourself with coming down on the small dealer who sells by the glass, and allow the rich merchant to import his liquor by the hogshead, you have not the feeling of the community with you, and unless you have public sentiment on your side you cannot enforce such laws. Supposing you had what you choose to call a pain in your stomach, in Portland, for instance, do you think you would have any trouble at all in getting a glass of brandy?

Hon. Mr. DICKEY Not the least.

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Hon. Mr. ALMON - I am not going to oppose this measure at this stage; but,

if you will introduce a bill to attack the vice at the fountain-head, I should be very glad to vote for it.

Hon. Mr. GIRARD-- I feel honored at being asked to second this Bill. This is not the proper occasion to discuss the principle of the Temperance law. The measure before the House is merely one for the purpose of making the operation

of the Scott Act easier. No doubt there

is a great deal of diversity of sentiment on the subject of temperance legislation, but I do not hesitate to say that it has. benefitted the Province of Manitoba very much, and I am quite sure it will conbeen adopted in a considerable portion of tinue to do good. The Scott Act has Manitoba, and I should not be surprised if within a short time it should be by the whole province, as it has been in Prince Edward Island. It has been said that Winnipeg is an exceedingly intemperate city; yet I believe that, if the people of that place were called upon to record their votes upon this law, there would be a large majority in favor of it. No doubt there are a great many hotels and saloons in Winnipeg, but that is because it is a new place, and there are a great many strangers continually coming there, so that such houses must be tolerated. Most

of the disorder which occurred there from time to time should not be attributed to

the people of Winnipeg, but to strangers

who came there for the first time, and and from feelings of loneliness from being who, in the novelty of their situations, do something extraordinary. The drunkso far away from home, think they must attributed to the population of Winnipeg, enness of such people should not be who are quite as honest and temperate as any other population in any part of the and shall always be happy to assist my Dominion. I gladly second the motion, hon. friend in any way that I can in his advocacy of the temperance cause.

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