Branch

of

the

The motion was amended accordingly, and agreed to.

The Senate adjourned at 3.50 p.m.

THE SENATE,

Legislature. The Hon. Mr. SCOTT accepted the sugdeceased gentleman also held the gestion. position of Privy Councillor, having been sworn in in 1874. He was my predecessor in the office of Secretary of State, and subsequently occupied the position which you now fill. We all remember that, although loyal to his party; although having strong feelings of allegiance to those with whom he was in sympathy, politically, during his incumbency of that chair, his decisions were received in this House as coming from one who pronounced them judicially. I think I express the opinion of every gentleman here, that he did all in his power, with the clear judgment that Providence had blessed him, to act honorably, fairly and with integrity while he occupied the position of Speaker of this House.

He

had filled other positions, perhaps of not
equal importance, yet scarcely second to
those, having been devoted to the eleva-
tion of the Province of Ontario in the
science of agriculture. Eminently suc-
cessful in that pursuit, he engrafted his
own views on men who are now leading
tillers of the soil in Ontario. I think he
was the first President of the Agricultu-
val Association and Board of Arts, and,
from its inception down to his latest
breath, his heart was in the development
of that important branch of industry in
Ontario. I am aware that it is the rule in
this Chamber that, when a departure takes
place among the members of the Senate,
it is not customary, of late years, for an
adjournment to be moved. However,
considering
the exceptional position
which the deceased gentleman occupied-
that of having filled the chair in this
body-I think the rule might, with all
propriety, on the present occasion, be
departed from, and I am quite sure that
this Chamber will mark its feeling of
regret at the loss it has sustained by
adjourning out of respect for his memory.
With these brief observations, I move
that this House do adjourn out of respect
to the memory of the late Hon. David
Christie.

Hon. Sir ALEX. CAMPBELL, in a few words full of sympathy, seconded the motion and suggested that as Mr. Christie had been the Speaker of the Senate, two members of the Honse should attend the funeral on behalf of the .Senate.

Thursday, December 16th, 1880. The Speaker took the chair at 3.30 o'clock.

Prayers and routine proceedings.

DEATH OF SENATOR CHRISTIE.
The SPEAKER notified the House
that he had named the Hon. Messrs.
Scott and Hope, as representatives of the
Senate to attend the funeral of the late
Hon. David Christic.

TEMPERANCE LEGISLATION.

INQUIRY.

Hon. Mr. BELLEROSE inquired whether, in view of the decision given by the Supreme Court, as to the unconstitutionality of the laws passed by the Local Legislatures prohibiting the sale of intoxicating liquors, it is the intention of the Government to bring in a measure on the subject ?

Hon. Sir ALEX. CAMPBELL—It' is not the intention of the Government to bring in a measure upon this subject. The hon. gentleman supposes that the appeal has been decided, but I am informed that it has not, but that it is to be taken to England.

THE SENATE DEBATES.
THE STANDING COMMITTEE APPOINTED.

in

Hon. Sir ALEX. CAMPBELL moved that the Hon. Messieurs Boyd, Brouse, DeBoucherville, Macfarlane, Scott, Thibaudean and Vidal be appointed a committee to quire into the best means to be adopted to obtain correct reports of the debates and proceedings of the Senate, and for the publication of the same, and to report from time to time their views to the House. He said that he had given notice of the re-appointment of the old committee, but was informed on the part of some of the members that they would rather have a new committee struck, in order

that two or three members had asked not-
to be appointed to that committee, and
that he would ask the House, therefore,
to withdraw the motion,
motion, he (Mr.
Bellerose,) translating that statement into
French, could give but one interpretation
to the words of the leader of the House,
that another notice of motion would be
given with the names of those who did
not wish to serve, struck out, and re-
placed by the names of others. But it
seemed, from the observations made by
the hon. Senator opposite (Mr. Miller)
that he himself had suggested another
course.

to get rid of and forget the troubles of last year; and he thought, himself, that this was the better course to take. Since then it had been suggested that as Mr. Thibaudeau was not often present, the name of another French Canadian member should be added to the committee. Hon. Mr. Chapais' name had been suggested. He (Sir Alex. Campbell) would be very glad to have that gentle man on the committee. Since then the hon. member from DeLanaudiere, who had been on the committee before, had expressed a desire to serve upon it again; and, as far as he (Sir Alex. Campbell) was concerned, he had no objection to add his name too. Hon. Mr. Hope had also been mentioned; so he proposed to add the names of the Hon. Messrs. Belle-gestion of the hon. Postmaster-General. rose, Chapais and Hope. He (Mr. Miller) did not wish to serve himself.

Hon. Mr. CHAPAIS-I should prefer not to serve on the committee. Take Mr. Bellerose.

Hon. Sir ALEX. CAMPBELL moved that Hon. Messrs. Bellerose and Hope be added to the committee.

Hon. Mr. MILLER said if a new committee was to be appointed, he did not see why the hon. Senator from De Lanaudiere should depart from the understanding which the House had arrived at a day or two ago. He did not see why any particular individual of the old committee was to be appointed on the new one. He (Mr. Miller) thought, himself, it would be a good idea to substitute a new committee for the old one. But the suggestion should be carried out in its entirety.

Hon. Sir ALEX. CAMPBELL said his impression had been that there should be an entirely new committee, but as the

hon. Senator from De Lanaudiere wished

to have his name added to it, he had stated that he had no objection. The object of appointing a new committee was, that the troubles of last session and the previous one might be altogether forgotten.

Hon. Mr.

Hon. Mr. MILLER denied that he had said anything of the kind. He had stated that he agreed with the sug

Hon. Mr. BELLEROSE said the hon. gentleman had stated that the Postmaster-General ought to stick to what had been decided upon.

Hon. Mr. MILLER" Suggested," i said.

Hon. Mr. BELLEROSE contended that if the hon. Senator from Richmont (Mr. Miller) did not wish to serve the Committee he should withdraw, bu the whole Committee should not by wiped out because one or two of its members wished for a change. He (Mr. Bellerose) did not consider it proper that his name should be struck out merely to please the hon. gentleman (Mr. Miller), who was himself always ready to take offence at any slight which was offered to him. The Committee had worked harmoniously last session, the only exception being the conflict which the hon. gentleman himself had raised because he (Mr. Miller) had some feelwith the reporters. Was it proper that ing against the reporters, the Committee was to be discharged and new members who would suit the hon. gentleman's taste appointed? If there was

one committee with which the GovernBELLEROSE consider- ment ought not to meddle it was ed it but natural that the old this. It should be left in the hands of committee should be re-appointed, the House. The money which was paid as had been done in the case for the reporting service was taken out of all the other committees. But of the contingencies of the Senate, and when the hon. Postmaster-General rose excepting the general supervision which in his place the other day, and said the Government must have over all ex

penditures of the public money, they should not interfere with this matter. The House had, by a unanimous vote, expressed itself favorable to the committee, and there was nothing therefore, to justify the Government in adopting the course which they were now following. The proof that it was not the House that demanded this change was, that the Hon. Postmaster-General had of his own motion given notice to reappoint the old committee, and it had evidently been withdrawn at the request of somebody.

ability and faithfulness of the reporters. But the system was not what it should be, and ought to be changed. Suggestions to that effect had been made last session, not only by himself, but by the leader of the Government. The hon. Senator from Londonderry, and other members of the Senate who frequently took part in its debates, and whose opinions were entitled to respect, had suggested that some change should be made in the system of reporting, and that a plan should be adopted similar to that which was now working so successHon. Mr. MILLER said that nothing fully in the House of Commons. The which had fallen from him justified the day after the debate on the Address in remarks of the hon. Senator from DeLa- that body took place a full report of naudiere. There certainly was nothing it was in the hands of members, to justify his misrepresentation of facts and the press on both sides of politics. which ought to be within his know- complimented the House of Commons ledge. The hon. gentleman had stated on the great improvement they had that this new departure had been made introduced into their system of reportat his (Mr. Miller's) instigation. How ing. He thought it would be well if a dare he make such an assertion without new committee, free from any partiality a tittle of evidence to support it! When for the old system and from the unhe did so he only placed his statements fortunate personal unpleasantness of generally in a position not to entitle last year, should be appointed, who them to a great deal of credence by those who heard them. The hon. gentleman thought proper to say that there had been no trouble in the committee last vear, except what he (Mr. Miller) made. Whether the hon. gentleman agreed with him or not, he was not going, by a loud voice, to prevent him (Mr, Miller) from stating his objections or vindicating his rights upon the floor of this House. With all the aggressiveness and inclination to be disagreeable which the hon. gentleman had on former occasions shown towards him and others, he would meet him (Mr. Bellerose) on this or any other ground which he might take in the Senate, in any spirit he thought proper to evince. lt was fact that there had been a great deal of unpleasant feeling in the committee last year, and that he (Mr. Miller), for reasons which he would not now state, was obliged to bring any grievances in connection with the reporting which he had to complain of before the Senate, and not before the committee. The hon. gentleman stated that the House was Hon. Sir ALEX. CAMPBELL was satisfied with the method of reporting very sorry that there should be any unlast year; that statement was not cor-friendly feeling about this matter. He (Mr. Miller) desired to say was only a domestic arrangement for the nothing on this occasion against the purpose of having their debates reported,.

rect.

would be ready to adopt any improvement which the experience of the other House might show to be desirable. It was useless for the hon. Senator from DeLanaudiere to say that he (Mr. Miller) was the only one dissatisfied last session. Others had been dissatisfied, and the hon. gentleman might some day find that it would be just as unpleasant for him if others assumed a position such as he was adopting to-day, and by which any member might be placed at a disadvantage in reference to any public question. The principle having been laid down that a new committee was to be struck, there was nothing offensive in. making the change, and it was not usual for a member to force himself upon a committee where a course likethis was deemed necessary from any cause. The suggestion of the hon. Postmaster-General was a good and salutary one and likely to prove beneficial to the House and to the reporting service.

It

new

Under

Hon. Mr. BOTSFORD, as a member of the former committee, did not feel that this was a reflection upon them. the circumstances be approved of the ap pointment of a new committee, as he thought it was perhaps the best way to get over the difficulty.

and surely it could be disposed of with- | Government would not cast a reflection out unpleasantness. The reason of the on the members of the old committee as change was that there had been some not having done their duty. npleasantness on the committee, and some gentlemen did not desire to serve on it again. Then it occurred to him that it would be better to change it altogether-take a fresh departure, and let bygones be bygones; that a committee would have an opportunity of ascertaining without being influenced by prejudices and past differences what was the best course to be pursued with regard to the reporting, because there could be no comfort to the House in perpetual wrangle over those small matters. He thought from the position taken by his hon. friend from De Lanaudiere (Mr. Bellerose) the better plan would be to adhere strictly to the form of procedure, and move the resolution just as it was, allowing the hon. gentleman to have some further motion made hereafter upon the subject, if he so desired.

Hon. Mr. BELLEROSE said that he had no

intention of provoking the hon. gentleman from Richmond,

Hon. Mr. HAYTHORNE said that he had been placed on the committee two years ago when the change took place. Though having no acquaintance with the subject, he had assumed the duty of serving upon the committee, and he had endeavored to discharge his duty in an efficient manner. He had heard No complaint in that committee that the reporting of this House was inefficiently, inadequately or improperly performed. On the contrary, he thought there was a general feeling of satisfaction at the it was done. been

one or

Hon. Mr. CHAPAIS declined to manner in which There might have serve on the committee. two who expressed dissent; but on both sides of the House there was a general feeling that the reporting was promptly, efficiently and accurately performed. That being so it seemed strange that a committee who had discharged their duty so efficiently should be summarily dismissed.

as he knew it was a serious matter, and he did not wish to have him repeat the scenes of last year in this House. However, if there had been difficulties on the committee, they were of a trifling character, and the only serious trouble was that which had occurred once in this Chamber. The House could judge of it because every hon. member was present when the attack was made by the hon. Senator from Richmond upon the reporters. As to the question before the House, he did not intend to oppose the notion of the hon. Postmaster-General,

Hon. Mr. MACDONALD said, as a member who had served two years on the Debates Committee, he had on all occasions endeavored to carry out the views of the House rather than his own, and he thought it was very unfair to cast a reflection on that committee. The names of the old committee had been entirely omitted from the new one because one or two members were supposed to differ iu opinion from the others. In all committees there were difficulties, and it was well, perhaps, that there should be differences of opinion, but he hoped that the

Hon. Sir ALEX. CAMPEELL--Not at all.

Hon. Mr. HAYTHORNE considered that the committee who had charge of the debates had one of the most important duties that had to be performed in the Senate, for in their hands were the liberties of this House. Unless these debates were accurately reported and promptly published they might as well close their doors. To what purpose should he or any other hon. member rise in his place and bring some abuse or some malpractice which prevailed in his own province to the notice of the House, supposing it were in the power of any reporter or any committee to alter, amend or abbreviate that hon. gentleman's speech? The special point which had given so much satisfaction on both sides of this House with reference to the reporting had been the accuracy with which the speeches