314

Pacific

[SENATE.]

now

we

a

it must be carried out in its entirety or | The only argument advanced in favor of they must resign. This the Opposition the immediate construction of that linedeny, and I am sure they would be pre- is to have a national and military road. pared to pledge themselves not to take I admit that when the country has advantage of any concessions that the the means to accomplish it everyone will My hon. be pleased to have a through line of cur Government might make. friend from Londonderry has made use of own, but the advantage of the Sault would secure I do not characterize his connection would be that in three years the argument of the traffic of remarks as nonsense, as he does our from that if we abandon for a very large share arguments time the line north of Lake Superior the North-West; we would have to wait and make the connection by Sault Ste ten years for through communication by Marie, that it would divert the stream our cwn line north of Lake Superior. of immigration to the Western States When it was stated by the hon. leader instead of to our own North-West. I of the House at the commencement of do not look upon this argument as hav- this debate that it was ridiculous to ing any force. Supposing that line north suppose that the Syndicate would be of Lake Superior is built, we will remain interested in sending traffic by St. Paul to in the same position as we are now for Chicago and New York, he quoted If the Sault Ste. from a St. Paul paper to show that it ten long years more. Marie Branch was built, before the end was more in the interest of the SyndiI will not take up the time of of three years we would have the benefit cate to favor the Sault Ste. Marie of the traffic of the States of Dakota, route. Wisconsin the House in reading that paper, every Minnesota, Michigan and coming to us and passing over the Pacific hon. member has heard it already. It is Railway to Montreal and Quebec down generally and confidently believed by the St. Lawrence, and as to the immigra- gentlemen who have given attention to tion, the company interested in the the subject that the traffic of Minnesota early settlement of the North-West and Dakota would come to us and pass would secure agencies in Quebec and through Sault Ste. Marie to Montreal Montreal to look after the emigrants on and down the St. Lawrence. their arrival and provide them with hon. member for Lunenburg admitted tickets straight through to where they want that commercially the building of that It has been said in the cther road would be a necessity. Why, then, not have it immediately? Why lose House and other places that it was unNo imminent danger of war patriotic for a representative of the Pro- seven years of traffic with American vince of Quebec to advocate the con- States? struction of the Sault line. As a repre- forces us to have a military road, as is sentative of Quebec, I do not see the lack advocated by some hon. members. As for of patriotism. I have the interest of my the satisfaction of having a national road Province as much at heart as anyone of of our own we had better not be so those who call themselves great patriots, proud; we can wait a little longer for and it is with that interest in view I that. favor the construction of the Sault Ste Marie Branch.

to settle.

Hon. Mr. TRUDEL-Will the hon. gentleman tell me how the construction of the line north of Lake

The

Hon. Mr. TRUDEL- My question was this: How can the building of the present road prevent the construction of the Sault Ste. Marie Branch?

Hon. Mr. PELLETIER

There is.

Superior will prevent the building of the certainly nothing to prevent the con

Sault Ste. Marie branch?

I will
Hon. Mr. PELLETIER
come to that presently. We only ask
for a pause in the construction of the all
rail route; we do not ask to abandon |
entirely the programme of the Govern-
ment; we do not want the line north of
Lake Superior to be abandoned for ever.

struction of the Sault Ste. Marie Branch
in the same time as the line north of
But the objection we
Lake Superior.
have now is to the expenditure of $19,-
000,000 to construct the line north of
Lake Superior, when we could in three
years secure all the advantages of this
western traffic by const ructing the short

Hon. Mr. SMITH Will for the contract if we guarantee to give sider the situation. that subsidy ?

After Recess.

Hon. Mr. DEBOUCHERVILLE

construct the road as a Governinent
work. They knew that if they were the
guardians of the purse of the country
they were also the guardians of its honor,
and that honor was pledged in a solemn
treaty with British Columbia to the
construction of this road. They, there-
fore, felt themselves obliged to adopt the
policy of last year.
Since then capi-ing stock.
talists have come forward, and have

At six o'clock I had shown, according to the report of Mr. Fleming, that the road which the Government was to construct for $80,000,000, was a second class road, half ballasted, and with hardly any rollMore than that, Mr. Fleming adds at the end of his letter to Sir Charles Tupper :"That the cost will increase if great prudence and judgment are not exercised as well as the strictest and recommends that "a economy be added." Now, liberal percentage they

offered to build this road on better terms

In

these

instructions

the

as

than those contained in the Act of 1874. The Government accepted those conditions. Let us now see if in doing so they exercised that economy which should always practice in the administrahon. the ex-Secretary of State, tion of public affairs. Let us look at the and I think the hon. member who spoke report of Mr. Fleming, of 1879, and at last, calculated the expenses of the road the instructions given by the hon. which this Syndicate is to build upon this Minister of Public Works, Sir very report. If this basis is not a Charles Tupper, on the 15th Feb- correct one, their calculations will fall to ruary, 1880. the ground. If I can show that those Sir Charles says:-"The policy of the calculations are not to be applied to the Government is to construct a cheap rail-road which is to be constructed by the way following, or rather in advance, of Syndicate, I do not think that anysettlement, with any workable gradients body can controvert the assertion these cannot stand. If you (that is to say, not making the gradients calculations as easy as Mr. Fleming had recommended in his former report) that can be, incurring no expenditure beyond that absolutely necessary to affect the colonization of the country.' Mr. Fleming, in accordance with those instructions, made a new report, estimating the cost at about $80,000,000; but in this report it is intended that the line shall be partly ballasted to render it available for colonization purposes, full ballasting being deferred until the traffic demands a high rate of speed, full equipment to be postponed, etc., in fact a cheap line according to the policy of the Government. Now, we have seen that this road was to be completed as a very cheap road—what we call in the Province of Quebec a colonization road such a road as connects with the North Shore road at Three Rivers, and known as the "Piles Road." I have not the precise figures with me, but I am sure I am not very far wrong when I say that the road from Three Rivers to Piles on the St. Maurice, did not cost more than half what the North

Shore road cost per mile I think it was about $14,000.

64

take the contract as laid before
us, what has the Government taken as
its standard for the construction of this
new road? It is the Union Pacific as
at first constructed which is to serve
the standard. Now, some dispute has
as first con-
arisen about this phrase
structed:" it seems to me a road is not
constructed when it is only half finished,
and the meaning is that the road was
constructed when it received from the
United States the bonuses in lands and
money to which it was entitled. Take
the Statutes at large of the United
States for the year 1862, at chap. 120,
sec. 4, and you will see what sort of
road this Union Pacific Railway is :-

"And be it further enacted, that whenever
the said company (Union Pacific) shall have
completed forty consecutive miles of any por
tion of said railway and telegraph line, ready
for the service contemplated by this Act, and
supplied with all the necessary drains, cul-
verts, viaducts, crossings, sidings, bridges,
turnouts, watering places, depots, equipments,
furniture and all other appurtenances of a first-
class railroad, the President, etc."
Therefore, if the hon. gentlemen who
desire to vote against this Bill, and who
wish the Government to continue this

It being six o'clock, the Speaker left road desire anything they desire that we

the chair.

should have a second-class road, whilst the

this company should have
bridges on the rivers, or bridges
high enough not to obstruct navigation.
The General Consolidated Railway Act
and gentlemen who have read this
Bill before us will notice that this clause
which I am about to refer to is not ex-
certed, and therefore applies to this Bill
- provides, in clause 67, as follows:-

would not be more than a couple of
millions of dollars. Let us say $20,-
000,000 for the whole; all the
rest, the brain work and hand work,
will be SO
much money gained
by the labor of this country -
picbably
more than $100,000,000.
Labor has already risen in Ottawa 20
per cent.; men are paid 20 per cent.
more in the shanties this year than they
were last year, and probably next year
they will be paid even higher wages.
the Province of Quebec, during the con-

In

Government is offering us by this Bill a first-class road. As I had the honor of explaining before six o'clock, it is not the absolute rule; but still contractors are generally aware of what work they have to do. In building the North Shore road, Mr. McGreevy charged about one half for building the Piles branch. Let us put it at 25 per cent. ; we can see the difference in the cost of the road as it will be built by the Syndicate, and the road which we would have had if the Government constructed it. Another objection, which has been answered al-struction of the Q. M. O. & O. Railway, ready, is this: that the Gov- we had a large population and we could ernment has not taken care that get labor cheap. Men were paid as low draw- as four shillings during the progress of the work on the railway there.. In British Columbia I believe the general price is $2; that is, certainly, a very advantageous thing to this country. I do not think it necessary to return to the question of the value of our land in the NorthWest. The hon. gentleman who spoke before me said "put these lands at $3." Well, if they are worth $3 to the Syndicate our lands ought to be worth as much to us, and in that case we should have enough to pay the whole cost of the road. After all, we are committed to the expenditure of only $25,000,000 cash, and say $30,000,000 upon the road that we hand over to the Syndicate. Add $3,500,000 for surveys, although they were made not merely for the purpose of locating the road, but also for explorations of the North-West, and therefore ought not to be charged exclusively to the railway however, add the entire sum, and we have more than sufficient money to pay the whole cost of the railroad by the sale of 25,000,000 acres of land. I listened, last night, with the greatest pleasure and attention, to the clear and forcible speech of the hon. the Minister of Inland Revenue; but I differ from him on one point. I do not think

"CLAUSE 67.-If the railway be carried across any navigable river or canal, the company shall leave openings between the abutments or piers of their bridge or viaduct over the same, and shall make the same of such clear height above the surface of the water, or shall construct such drawbridge or swingbridge over the channel of the river, or over the whole width of the canal, and shall be subject to such regulations as to the opening of such swing bridge or drawbridge as the Gov

ernor-in-Council from time to time makes." I think it was the hon. gentleman from Prince Edward Island (Mr. Haythorne) who made this objection, and this clause ought to satisfy him. I believe the exSecretary of State said that this road can be constructed at a much lower price now than if it had been built by the Company some years ago, because of business looking up all over the country: Now, it seems to me it is quite the contrary. If we are prosperous; if Our working- it will take such a long time to get a men find employment, wages will neces- large population into the North-West. sarily increase, and therefore, these gen- I believe it will soon come, and supposing tlemen who undertake the construction the lands were worth $10 to the Syndiof this road will have to pay much more cate, ours will be worth an equal price, if the proportion of labor to material is and the Dominion, and consequently we, large. Take the steel rails, and other will be all the richer. I do not see how articles which are admitted free of duty people can be dissatisfied because the altogether. If I take the estimate of the value of these lands will be increased, hon. member (Mr. Scott) the rails are and because the increase will prove worth $10,000,000: the other articles | advantageous to the Syndicate. Sup

if their

can have a

pose each shareholder of this Company | the people of the North-West were to subscribe enough to become a trade renders it necessary director, it would require 1,000 share- road to bring them to the navigation of holders to take up the stock. It is true Lake Superior, and from there they can some will subscribe more than enough to go down to the seaboard. The monopoly be directors, but many more will subscribe is that the freight will have to go through less than enough. If they were to make our own territory. Goods which will be large fortunes, I do not think we should required for the North-West will have suffer by having 100 millionaires inter- to go through Canada. Is there anybody ested in the welfare of this country. I in this House (I do not think there is come now to the question of monopoly. I any in the country) who would be am not afraid of that sort of monopoly; willing that this trade should be on the contrary, I think it will prove diverted from our own country and sent advantageous to the country. What through the United States? That is one will it amount to? In reality it will of the monopolies which, after all, is for only be for ten years. Until the Cana- the protection of Canada. There is no dian Pacific Railway is constructed no- question we all hope that our country body can imagine that another competing will soon attain the greatness to which road will be built through our own ter- it is evidently predestined. This greatritory. Therefore, this monopoly is only ness means large cities on the Atlantic for ten years in reality; but take the coast and large empire cities on the period mentioned in this Bill, twenty Pacific coast. Now, our neighbors in years, under any circumstances there the United States, who, after all, are will not be a monopoly for not very far from the western terminus the through trade from Japan of our road not more than twenty or and China to the Atlantic ports. thirty miles between Burrard Inlet and There are other competing roads, the the boundary line - have the start of Union Pacific and Northern Pacific, and us. They have the advantage of a large therefore, for that trade we can feel sat- population on the Pacific coast; they isfied that the Company will not charge have companies of steamships trading to such high rates as to divert it to other China and Japan; while we have not channels. It is contended that they will yet those advantages; we have no impose high rates to prevent the trans- large cities there; and if we were to portation of wheat, because they will allow a branch road to be built from the have no competitors in the North-West. Pacific Railway to the American boundI say they will have competition if the ary, and from that point it were continued trade there calls for it. As the hon. the down to some of their magnificent harbors, leader of the Government said during which is but a short distance we might, this debate, there is nothing to prevent after all our trouble and expense, find the granting of charters to companies to that we had constructed a road to build the north of that line; while to the south up a great city in the United States. And Parliament can grant charters to we should find ourselves in a rather ridicurailroads running in a southwesterly lous position; therefore this monopoly of direction, and that is just the the Pacific coast is what we should direction we require to carry desire; a monopoly which is only one the traffic of that country through the against the United States and not against Dominion. In reference to this ques- Canada will be for our own benefit. tion the ex-Secretary of State There are, perhaps, a few features of this said:" But you must also keep charter which might be found fault with ; to the north of the Canadian we are going to build 800 miles of railcific Railway." I admit that there way in the Province of Ontario, 600 will be some difficulty in keeping miles north of Lake Superior, and 200 to the north of that line; but when it miles of the Canada Central, but we of reaches the Province of Ontario the the eastern provinces are not jealous; Legislature of that Province can give a take our share of the money to build that charter for crossing the Pacific Railway road, we do not object. You want the and terminating on Lake Superior. Sault Ste. Marie road. Well, we have Nothing can prevent it, and therefore no objection to your taking the money to

Pa