''

66

the Syndicate, and by some mysterious | as compared with the $30,000,000 in calculation of his own, which I am sure 1871. Taking the hon. gentleman's own I failed to comprehend, he arrived at the line of argument, the comparison in all conclusion that the Syndicate would cases becomes more favorable to the build the whole road, and have about present contract. Objections have been $19,000,000, and the 25,000,000 acres taken to the allotment to the central of land worth $75,000,000. Talk about section being, as is claimed, out of prothe greenback system. It is wholly portion to the western and eastern sececlipsed. Talk about the rag baby, tions. Hon. gentlemen should bear in why the rag baby is dead, and the ex-mind that the first expenditure almost Secretary of State has buried it out of of the Syndicate will be the equipment sight! I do not pretend to equal the of 712 miles of railway; this and to old Scotchman who was asked if he run it, will require a large amount of could preach a sermon. "Yes," capital. Then, a large amount of capital he said. "And can you divide will be necessary to provide plant for it up in its different heads?" the whole undertaking, and to organize Yes," he replied. "And can you a thorough system of immigration. draw the inference?" "Indeed, I can.' Whilst constructing the central, they .. Well, now, what inference would you must proceed with the eastern section. draw from this text: The wild ass The cash subsidy given to the eastern snuffeth up the east wind ?'" Aye, and western sections will fall far short of replied the old man, "I wad just draw the actual cost, and it is both for the the inference that he wud no get verra interest of the Dominion and the Synfat." Well, hon. gentlemen, I draw the dicate that a large amount of land should inference that the Syndicate that con- be given to the Syndicate for settlement structs this Pacific Railway in the man- as soon as possible. Some time must ner proposed by the ex-Secretary of State necessarily elapse before the Syndicate -the men who furnish the supplies, the can have a return from lands to help navvies who do the hard work, the men provide the cost of constructing the who run the road, and every man eastern and western sections. It is connected with it will be snuffing up essential to the prosperity of the the east wind, and "no get verra fat." North-West and the success of the Nothing but the expenditure of millions whole that there shall be a large of hard cash will ever bring that work population put in there, and that to completion, and no process by which you shall give over to the Company for the hon. gent ntleman can bring out on that purpose, as soon as possible, as large paper, a balance of $19,000,000, in favor an extent of territory as it is safe to do of the Syndicate will ever accomplish under the terins of the contract. All the it. Various propositions have been land that the Syndicate can settle in the made for the construction of this work. first years during the construction of the I do not propose to detain the House road will lie along the line, and the 900 with a comparison of all the various miles over the prairie section will only offers and propositions which have been give them sufficient land as laid down made, but I do say this, that within the proper distance on each side taking the hon. ex-Secretary of State's of the line. But, if the gentlemen of the own line of argument, that money is Opposition think that we should have cheaper now and easier raised than it held part of these lands and was in 1871 and 1874, the facts become money and placed it directly upon stronger against him. Taking the rate of interest that we were paying in 1871 and the rate that we are paying now, it will not cost us more to raise $36,134,831 now than it did .cost us when we offered the Allan Company $30,000,000. Or, if you take the reverse of it, the $25,000,000 at the rate we are paying for money now, would only be equal in reality to $20,755,000

the eastern and western portions of the road, what have they to say to their own Act of 1874? That Act divides the work into sections. It says "it shall be divided into sections," and it names them just as they are named in this contract. Then it goes on to say that $10,000 a mile shall be given to each and every mile, and in every section, and that 20,000 acres of land shall

I

one

be given to every mile of every section | him, and the Court decided that he had of the road. That Act declaring that a monopoly of the works on that river. this subsidy should be given in all But why should these hon. gentlemen cases would give to that central section talk about a monopoly being created be$10,000 in cash and 20,000 acres of cause of this clause in the Bill? Look land per mile, and in addition at their own. Mr. Mills, while a memto that they propose to guarantee four ber of the late Government, introduced a per cent. or any sum the contractors and Bill in the other House for the constructhe Government might agree upon. We tion of railways in the North-West, by will drop the four per cent. We will which he created the very kind of monoput any valuation that any gentleman poly that the same hon. gentleman now who has spoken on that side will men- complains of. He says in that Bill:--tion upon the land; but $3 seems to be "No company shall be incorporated, the figure about which they all cling. under the provisions of this Act, for the You have at that rate $60,000 worth construction of any railway having the of land, and $10,000 in cash, or $70,000 same general direction as the Canadian Paa mile for building the Central section. cific Railway, or any branch thereof, at a That is what they proposed to give under nearer mean distance than forty miles." their Act of 1874. But some hon. gen- People outside of Parliament reading tlemen lay great stress upon the fact, or that would take up that word "mean what they call a fact, that this and say it was mean to complain of a measure will create a monopoly in the bill that allows you to go within fifteen westa monopoly which the hon. Sen- miles of the frontier, when these gentleater from Charlottetown said would be men declare themselves that no like a malaria spreading over the land. should go within forty miles of the Pacific was, and am still, under the impression Railway. Then they complain of the that the object of this Bill is to break up rates of freight, and contend that the a monopoly that has existed in the North- road should be held by the Government West from time immemorial. The In-in order that they might regulate those dians, the buffaloes, the prairie dogs and rates, and the ex-Secretary of State the muskrats have had a monopoly of instanced the case of the Interthat country for ages, and the proposition colonial Railway being held as а is to break up the monopoly of barbarism Government work, and that we and to give that country civilization, prosperity and advancement in the world. They say it is a monopoly because no other company can construct a railway to within fifteen miles of the boundary. The hon. gentleman opposite who spoke yesterday asked, "Would you give a river away?" and some hon. gentlemen said, hear, hear." Certainly not if the river were open and free to the navigation of the world. But if it were obstructed and any individual should fit it for navigation by overcoming those obstructions, the country would give him a monopoly of it, and the privilege of exacting tolls for the use of it by others. The Government. itself constructs canals and charges tolls upon vessels passing through them, and in that way has a monopoly of our rivers. Aing the charges for freight, and reducing case occurred a few days ago, where one Jumberman had made improvements on a river, and another lumberman passed his logs over the chutes of that river. The owner of the improvements sued

came to this House to complain
of the rates, and they were reduced. The
fact is, that all the great railways of this
continent: the syndicates, and companies,
and individuals, that have been gathering
in and strengthening their lines, have
tended, under the management of the
companies, to a reduction of the rates of
freight, and it was only because the
Intercolonial Railway was held by the
Government held by the late Govern-
ment that we had to
to this House to complain of
the rates of freight. At that time
all the railways held by private
companies on this continent were re-
ducing their rates for freight and were
increasing the traffic upon their lines,
whilst the late Government were increas-

come

the traffic upon the Intercolonial. I remember bringing this matter to the notice of this Chamber during the administration of the late Government, and of having cited numerous cases of re

ductions made by companies in the The debate was adjourned until torates for freight; and having pre- morrow, Mr. McLelan still holding

sented such a case as

BILL INTRODUCED.

Bill (K) "An Act to incorporate the British Colonial Insurance Company."—(Mr. Allan.)

The Senate adjourned at 6 p.m.

THE SENATE.

Thursday, February 10th, 1881.

The Speaker took the chair at three

p.m.

Prayers and routine proceedings.

WINTER COMMUNICATION WITH
PRINCE EDWARD ISLAND.

was unanswerable the floor. to the Government; and that, I believe, had sonie little influence in bringing about a reduction of the rates upon the Intercolonial. I say that, so far from being alarmed at the rates that railway companies may charge, we would have more cause for alarm if the line were owned by the Government, because governments will not watch so closely the interests of a railway and the wants of traffic as a company will. The Government are not so easily reached as a company is, nor so easily affected in their own interest or in their pockets; therefore, I claim that it is safer under a company that will carefully watch the pulse of traffic, and, in every possible way, seek to strengthen it; besides, we can, when there is need. reach them under the clauses of the general Railway Act. But hon. gentlemen also assert that this Company will hold their lands, and they have cited the case of the "Canada Land Company," which has held lands for 20 or 30 years, but the cases are quite different. The main profits of the Syndicate must arise from the settlement of their lands. What is the advantage of the Company undertaking to construct the Pacific Railway through that territory if they do not at the first possible moment settle the lands along the line. They must, in order to save themselves, either settle our lands which are sandwiched in with theirs, or settle their own. I believe the Syndicate cannot build that road for less than $50,000,000, and it would have cost the Government very much more, as I have attempted to show. Now, all that the Government pays is $25,000,000, which will leave at least $25,000,000 to be provided for by the Syndicate. They are under bonds therefore to the extent of $1,250,000 a year for the

interest

INQUIRY.

the members of the Government posHon. Mr. HAYTHORNE inquired if

sessed

of the Northern Light.
any information as to the position

He said: Pri

vate advices from Prince Edward Island
state that the vessel has been for days in
the ice, and that 26 passengers left, the
vessel being short of provisions, and
spent the night on the ice. The vessel
is still in a precarious position, and some
of the passengers are still upon it. If
the Government are not in possession of
any
information at present, perhaps they
can furnish some to the House to-morrow.

Hon. Sir ALEX. CAMPBELL — The Government has not heard anything on the subject for the last three or four days. Before that we had heard that the passengers had left, but that although the vessel was in the ice, there was no danger. I will inquire and inform my hon. friend to-morrow if we hear any

CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY.

upon that sum at least, thing. and they have also the expense of working the road of at least $6,000,000, so that the Syndicate is under bonds to the extent of $7,250,000 at the very lowest calculation--to sell their land or to people ours. Whichever way you put it, if they sell their own lands, or if they people ours the advantages will accrue to the Dominion.

MOTION.

Hon. Mr. SCOTT moved:

"That an humble Address be presented to

His Excellency the Governor General, praying that His Excellency will cause to be laid before this House, a copy of the Order in Coun

cil, passed in or before the year 1873, fixing | ways in the United States have Esquimalt as the Western Terminus of the been during the past year. I have Canadian Pacific Railway."

Hon. Sir ALEX. CAMPBELL The Government have no objection.

The motion was agreed to.

PACIFIC RAILWAY BILL.

THE DEBATE CONTINUED.

The Order of the day having been called for resuming the adjourned debate on the Hon. Mr. Scorr's motion, in amendment to the motion of the Hon. Sir ALEX. CAMPBELL "That the Canadian | Pacific Railway Bill be now read the second time," by leaving out "now" and after "time" inserting "this day three months,"

here a statement showing that 31 railways in the United States, for the past year, with an aggregate length of 3,375 miles, with $166,000,000 bonds and $97,000,000 stocks, were sold under foreclosure of mortgage.

Hon. Mr. SCOTT Between what years?

Hon. Mr. McLELAN

That was

during the last year. In five years 228 roads, having a mileage of 20,000-nearly 23 per cent. of the present total mileage of the United States-and a nominal investment of $1,236,000,000, became bankrupt, and bankrupt mainly and solely, as we all must infer, from the want of traffic upon the roads. If this Syndicate Hon. Mr. McLELAN said: Hon. gen- should follow the insane practice of withtlemen, I am sorry to trespass further holding their lands from settlement they upon the attention and time of the House, must inevitably become bankrupt also; but I shall endeavor to limit my remarks but if they settle the lands of the Domiand make them as brief as possible to-nion, and thereby secure traffic, then the day. When the House adjourned last | ends we desire will be accomplished. evening, I was endeavoring to show that But how are they to lock up their lands? there need be no apprehension of a monopoly in the North-West under the Bill transferring the construction of this work to a Syndicate. I had shown, I think, that it was the interest of the Syndicate to dispose of their lands as early as possible and to settle that country in order that they might have a traffic which would pay the cost of running the railway and the interest upon the necessary capital that they would invest over and above the subsidy. This sum I place at $7,250,000, or for five years the period for which I had made my other calculations - it would amount to $36,250,000. Hon. gentlemen will see that, having the Syndicate under so heavy bonds to dispose of their lands and to settle the country, there need be no great alarm that they would hold them for an increased value. All that the lands, if held, would increase in value would be lost in the annual deficit in the working of the road, and in the interest of the capital. With out population, hon. gentlemen know that the railway cannot exist, that they cannot meet the interest upon their bonds which they will have outstanding; and the probabilities are that they would otherwise have to go into bankruptcy and be sold out, as many other rail

How are they to get increased prices when we have intermixed with all the lands that they can hold — good, bad and indifferent lands of the same quality and the same quantity, acre for acre, mile for mile, and farm for farm, which will be sold at a dollar and a quarter an acre? Hon. gentlemen have claimed that the Company will get the best lands. Why, under the system in which the lands are to be located in alternate blocks of a mile square if they get a good mile we will have an adjoining mile equally good, and the average price that we could get for it, under the land regulations which were published in October last, would be at the highest, one dollar and a quarter an acre. Taking the homestead lot for settlement and the pre-emption lot, of 160 acres each - the one lot free and the other lot at two dollars and a half an acre we get in this way for the two lots an average of one dollar and a quarter an acre, from which deduct onequarter as the cost of management, and the price obtained by the Government as the net receipts for the land, will, in the best belt, be one dollar an acre. Assuming that the Company hold their own lands and settle ours, how will the mat