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lot on Main street, Winnipeg, changed those lands. It is impossible for hands at $200,000.

Hon. Mr. ALMON -It is a mistake. It was $20,000. I hope there is not as great a discount to be taken off the other figures.

Hon. Mr. SCOTT Possibly it will bear a very heavy discount, taking as an element, and one which is a very good guide, the Hudson's Bay Company's stock in 1875, 1876, and 1877, when, with the knowledge that people were going into that territory, and that the fur-bearing animals were becoming scarcer each year, the Company's stock went down until it was considered of very little value. What is it worth to-day? It has gone up to a fabulous figure, because they see that an element that they never reckoned on the extraordinary value of their lands for years to come- - is a basis on which they will get their dividends, and which had not been before thought of. In 1875 and 1876 a very small sum would have bought the Hudson's Bay Company people out of that country; to-day it would take a very large amount of money to purchase their interests. If they base their figures to-day on the Canada Company's report of a few weeks ago in London, they certainly would want a large figure; and that reminds me of the point the hon. gentleman wanted to make, that it was of no very great consequence that the lands should be given to the Syndicate, as they could not be taken away, and they would be a source of very great profit to the country. Yes, but a source of very great annoyance to the people who, we hope, will settle in that country. I notice that the Canada Company, in their last report, quote their lands in Canada as being worth 75 shillings an acre. They pay their shareholders very handsome dividends, as they have been paying handsome dividends for years. It is a very pertinent consideration, in giving away this vast quantity of land. Upper Canada, under royal influence, was forced forced is not too strong a word

to sell to a company of gentlemen in England a comparatively small area of land, and since that time those people have been drawing high dividends on their investment, and charging high rates to the people who have settled on

an

emigrant going into that new country to settle on the land he desires to obtain. Instead of settling on a Crown lot, as he supposes, he will find himself settled on a Hudson's Bay Company lot, a contractor's lot, or a school lot; and after his improvements have been made, he has to pay pretty sweetly for his farm. The experience of the Canada Company is a very little page in the history of Ontario.

It being six o'clock, Hon. Mr. Scott moved the adjournment of the debate until to-morrow.

The motion was agreed to.
The Senate adjourned at 6 p.m.

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"1. To pay the salary or wages of each permanent officer, clerk or servant of the Senate

who is paid monthly by one cheque only in and for each month.

"2. To date and issue such cheques for the month of July next, on Monday, the fourth of that month, and those for the seven succeeding months three days later each, as nearly as Sundays and holidays may permit; so that the salaries and wages for the month of February. 1882, may be paid on the twenty-seventh of that month; and thereafter to pay the same

on

the twenty-seventh of each month, or, if that day be B Sunday or holiday, on the next day thereafter not being a Sunday or holiday.

"2. To place in his Estimates for each year, as a separate item of contingencies, the amount payable by him in such year to the

superannuation fund, out of the contingencies of the Senate, under the order of the fif teenth of May, eighteen hundred and seventy

three."

the 4th of July next, and an additional postponement of three days on each month from that time would, in nine months, bring the date of payment of the wages of the employés of the Sen

I may state to the House that some | House, it was considered proper that correspondence took place between the that postponement should commence on Auditor-General and His Honor the Speaker in reference to what were considered to be irregularities in the manner of paying the officers of this House, and also in the manner of paying the superannuation of the employés of the Senate to the 27th of the month, the day on ate. The whole subject was fully dis- which it is proper that the payment cussed, and the conclusions, which are should be made, and most convenient to here recommended in the report, were, the auditing of the public accounts. That through His Honor's mediation, arrived change has been recommended on that at between himself and the Auditor- account. The third recommendation has General. They were then communicated reference to the superannuation fees of to me; were afterwards, by me, as chair- officers of this House. The custom has man, submitted to the Committee on prevailed of paying the superannuation Contingent Accounts, and received the charges of the officers of the House from approval of that Committee. There has the contingencies of the House, which is been a practice, it seems, of paying also, as reported by the Auditor-General, officers of this House, and employés contrary to law. That custom has, howgenerally, with more than one cheque for ever, also prevailed in the House of each month's payment. The Auditor Commons, and, although without the General considered that that gave unne- sanction of law or statute, has been folcessary trouble to the Audit office, and lowed up a number of years in both requested that in future the payments Houses, with this difference, that, in the be made in one monthly cheque. We House of Commons, the superannuation thought it a reasonable request, and the fees were made a separate item of contincommittee therefore recommended it. gencies, charged under that head, placed Then, as to the second recommendation, in the supply, and afterwards paid with a practice has prevailed in fact we the sanction of law, on the passing of that found it in existence on the establish- | Bill. But in the Senate it has been the ment of the Union of paying the officers of the House on the first day of every month, and I think it extended to the Civil Service also, a month before the money had actually been earned. As to how that irregularity first crept in, or for what reason that departure from the ordinary way of doing business took place, I do not now intend to offer any remarks. Suffice it to say that such a system prevailed before Confederation, and after Confederation a report of the Contingent Accounts Committee of the House continued that system. The Auditor-General has reported that this is now contrary to statute, and that, of course, the accounts of the Senate made up in this way cannot be audited according to law, and it must be changed. It was therefore arranged, and I think very wisely so, that, in order to make the change as little felt as possible by those whom it would affect, a period of nine months would be taken, over which to spread the time. In postponing the payment of the month's salary in the case of the employés of this

habit to place these items under another head, which did not indicate what they meant, and it was an irregular way of doing it. If the system is to prevail that the superannuation charges of the officers of this House are to be paid, as they have been, out of the contingencies, it should be done in the same way as those of the officers of the House of Commons, and an item should be put in for the superannuation fees for the officers of the Senate and officers of the Library, who have been included in the superannuation allowance paid out of the contingencies of the Senate. The reason why a different course has been adopted in both branches of Parliament in reference to the superannuation deductions of employés from that followed in the Civil Service generally, is that it is considered that the offi cers of the House do not stand in as favorable a position as the employés in the Civil Service outside, who are entitled to periodical increases of salary according to their periods of service—a rule which does not apply to the employés of the Senate and House of Commons. It is on

I

this ground that it is justified in the | Houses of Parliament any more than in other House, and if it be a justification the case of the officers of the departin that House for the course adopted ments. They are paid salaries which with regard to those officers, it must be seem to be sufficiently remunerative for a justification in the Senate, so long as the services they perform, and it is not a the practice remains what it is in the matter to be approved of by either House House of Commons. that, in addition to those sums that are set apart for the services they perform, Hon. Sir ALEX. CAMPBELL another and further remuneration should agree entirely in the observations of the be given in the way of superannuation hon. gentleman, and the report of the allowance-more particularly done, as it committee of which he is chairman, is in this House, under contingencies, upon all three points. All those recom- and without any attention being called mendations of the Committee are very to it in the House or in Parliament. I just, and should be carried out. With quite agree in the observation of my hon. reference to monthly payment in various friend that if it is to be continued at all, sums of the salaries of officers of the it should be by legislation, or that it House, it is an inconvenient practice, should be placed under a particular item. and I only wonder that those officers in I entirely concur in the recommendathe Audit Department who have beention of the Committee and should be glad inconvenienced by it, have allowed it to to see the report adopted.

expense on

go on so long. With reference to the
second point, I think that the irregular-
ity which the hon. gentleman alludes to
crept in before the Union, in conse-
quence of our moving from one place to
another with the seat of Government.
When these removals first took place
they imposed a considerable additional
the officers of the public
service of both Houses, and also of the
departments, and they were allowed, I
think, in consequence
of the incon-
venience they were put to by such
removals, to draw their monthly salaries
in advance, and the practice has gone on
since that time. In the various depart-
ments of the service the reform contem-
plated by this report has taken place, and
now, after the lapse of some months, we
are merely arriving at the payment of
salaries at the end of each month after
the salaries have been earned the plan
pursued in private life, and the proper
course according to law. With regard
to the superannuation allowance, the
argument used by my hon. friend is not
altogether correct. In the public de-
partments many of the officers get an
additional allowance year by year, but
that only applies to junior officers.
Those who are high up in the depart-
ments go on for ten, twelve or fifteen
years on the same salaries, and in that
respect stand just in the same position
as the higher officers of this House; and
I think, therefore, the payment should
not be made in the case of officers of the

--

was

Hon. Mr. MILLER I should have stated more distinctly than I did, when I on my feet before, that the Committee favored the third recommendation of Commons continues to follow the sysfor the present only. While the House tem that now prevails in that House, tem that now prevails in that House, there is no reason why the same system should not prevail here, but it was stated on the Committee that in all probability some change would take place before long that would bring the officers of both branches of Parliament under the same regulation as the members of the Civil Service.

The motion was agreed to, and the report was adopted.

NAPIERVILLE JUNCTION RAILWAY
AND QUARRY BILL.

SECOND READING.

Hon. Mr. BUREAU moved the second reading of Bill (H.): An Act to incorporate the Napierville Junction Railway and Quarry Company. He said: We have already in my county the advantage of a railroad in every parish except one, and to complete our system I have introduced this Bill, with the full expectation that it would receive the sanction of this House and of Parliament. The Company is being formed to construct a single track from a point near the Grande Ligne Station to a point in the village of Napierville, about eleven miles, and it will connect

with the Grand Trunk Railway. The for the reason that I then gave, and railway is for the purpose of developing which I will shortly repeat, inasmuch

a very valuable marble quarry at Napierville, and to connect the village of Napierville with the town of St. John. The marble and the stone has been considered of such value that large quantities of it have already been sold and sent as far as Chicago, and it is very much used by the builders in Montreal. There is no opposition to the road as it will be a feeder to the Grand Trunk Railway. A new road has already been built from Victoria Bridge, and is completed as far as St. Martin's. Previous to its construction we were obliged to go around by way of Caughnawaga and cross a dangerous ferry. At present there is a continuous railway from Plattsburg by we which can reach Montreal via the Victoria Bridge. There is another branch from Brousseau to Dundee in the county of Huntingdon which shall connect with the nearest railroad to Fort Covington.

Hon. Mr. AIKINS I have no objection whatever to offer in opposition to inasmuch as this Bill. it has been referred to the Standing Committee on Railways and Canals. However, there is one mysterious feature in it. It is the first time I have ever seen any bill to incorporate one man and allow him to select his codirectors.

Hon. Mr. BUREAU explained that it was the fault of the printer, who had omitted the names of Robert Cassels, Mederic Catudal, and William L. Hibbard. My hon. friend must know that a corporation cannot be bound with a less number than three persons. The motion was agreed to.

PACIFIC RAILWAY BILL.

THE DEBATE CONTINUED.

a

as it is the only charter up to the pre-
sent proposed charter that a Canadian
Government ever granted to any com-
pany for the construction of a railway to
the Pacific Ocean, and the line to be
Not that I, in
owned by the company.
any degree, desire to propose it as
standard for any future or for the pre-
sent charter, but merely as showing what
Parliament in Canada in 1872
the
thought would be a wise and prudent
charter to entrust to gentlemen, who
propose to build that great work, and
what a body of Canadians, conversant
with the nature of the work and the
character of the country were willing to
undertake the enterprize for, inasmuch
as we have no other precedent at all to
furnish, in some degree, a guide in the
consideration of the proposed charter
contained in the Bill now before Parlia-
I shall endeavor to describe
ment.
to the House, that the time and
circumstances are greatly changed since
1872, and what might be wise or pru-
dent or judicious in that year, might not
be prudent, wise and judicious in 1881,
with the accumulated experience of ten
years.

I will, however, draw attention
shortly to the paragraphs in the Bill of
1872, and make comments on the cor-
responding clauses in the present charter.
The first provision to which I shall
draw the attention of the House,
In the charter
is the capital stock.
granted in 1873 under the Act of 1872,
the amount of capital actually subscribed
and secured to the satisfaction of the
Government of Canada, was $10,000,000.
It is just double the amount proposed for
the capital that the charter requires the
Syndicate in the present contract to sub-
scribe. But, with the view of making
the Canadian Pacific Railway a thorough-
ly Canadian or British enterprise, the
Parliament of Canada seems to have felt

that it was necessary to surround it with very great precautions lest it might fall

The Order of the day having been called, for resuming the debate on the motion that the Canadian Pacific Rail-into the hands of foreign capitalists; and way Bill be now read a second time,

Hon. Mr. SCOTT said: When the House rose last evening, I was just entering upon that branch of the subject in which I proposed to discuss the provisions of the charter granted in 1873,

believing also under that contract that it was a tolerably good enterprise that would recompense those who embarked in it, we limited it to Canadians, and not only did that, but apportioned the stock in the following manner: Ontario, fiveup that thirteenths (and Ontario did take

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York absolutely.

much, and paid into the hands of the City of New Government its proportion); to Quebec, This Syndicate may, and no doubt will, four-thirteenths of the stock; and to if it is to their interest and advantage, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Mani-pass this charter over to foreigners, and toba and British Columbia, each one-it is a very easy matter for them to comthirteenth; so the stock was absolutely in ply with that single regulation of having the hands of Canadians for Canadians, and a majority of Canadians on that Board as a Canadian enterprise. But, in order by naming, as they often do in these effectually to restrict it in the future to corporations, persons to sit there and do being what it professes to be, we intro- the bidding of the shareholders. The duced a clause under which no assign- gentlemen interested in this scheme are ment of stock could take place for the all men of reputation, personally known first six years, unless with the consent to most of us, and I have for them the of the Governor in Council- unless the highest respect, but they have entered Government of this country agreeing, into this matter, not from patriotic shareholders could not transfer their motives, not from any desire to relieve stock, although it was paid up stock the Dominion of the burden of building so anxious were we that the undertaking this road, but they have gone into it as should remain in the hands of people of business men, as they had a right to do. this country people who, in point of for the purpose of making money out of honor or sense of propriety, would be it. I think I am quite within the bounds amenable to the public opinion of this of truth and propriety when I make that country. In the Syndicate contract, as statement. There is a provision requirhon. gentlemen are aware, the capital ing them to remain in the company for stock necessary to be subscribed, although a year, nominally, but if within a short they have authority under their charter period these gentlemen wish to sell out, to make it $25,000,000— is limited to it is competent for them to do so. They $5,000,000, half of the stock of the former are not men who would personally overcontract, and of that stock only thirty per look the construction of the work, but cent. need be paid up, when they are would do it as the Government of Canada entitled to the possession of this charter, would by proxy, by employing others and practically become independent of and engaging contractors. It is not to the Government and Parliament of the be supposed that those gentlemen Dominion. The charter does require are going to be satisfied with that before a certain time, in 1882, contractors' profits; they look for larger they should pay up the balance of returns. A contractor takes a contract stock, but we have no controlling influ- with the expectation of making ten or ence over that, inasmuch as, having paid twenty per cent. out of it. Many conup this thirty per cent. and secured their tractors are satisfied with far less profits, charter, we are not likely to make any but these gentlemen enter into this unfurther inquiry, provided they go on with dertaking with the expectation of making their work. There is but one restriction large sums of money, just as in other in reference to the enterprise being under large ventures to which I need not draw the control of British subjects the attention of the House, and they do that a majority of the directors must be not give any guarantee. If they did, I British subjects -- a majority only. should feel that there was some additional Now, hon. gentlemen are aware that security in this road being run and worked there is nothing to prevent this enter in a greater degree for the benefit of the prise passing within a very short time country. As to the transfer of stock, into the hands of foreign capitalists. those gentlemen whose names are conThere are in Canada to-day railways tained in the charter are absolute masters chartered by this House which are en- of the situation. If any outsider desires tirely owned and controlled by American to take stock, he cannot do so. He has capitalists, in the interests of American not the right, as under the Act of 1872, capitalists. I need only point to the to take stock. Stock-books are not to be Canada Southern, which has become opened now for Canadians to invest in essentially an American institu- the enterprise. If they get in, it is by tion, owned and controlled in the the will and pleasure of the Syndicate

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