and owned by themselves at a cost of many millions of money, is the most preposterous absurdity which was ever hatched by partisan extravagance." involved in this question was $21,000,000 – that this exemption from taxation was equivalent to giving the company $21,000,000. He had arrived Another objection which was taken to at that by a process which I shall speak the arrangement was that the company of presently. It was urged by another might impose any rate of freight they gentleman that the exemption was worth pleased upon the future inhabitants of $40,000,000. These are expressions and the country and the rates charged by the exaggerations which I thought would St. Paul, Minneapolis and Manitoba have been retracted when the explanation Railway have been quoted. Since that was given. They may have been; I do objection was taken we know that it was not know; but the mistake was one mentioned in the other House by the which had been arrived at in the manner Minister of Railways that an amendment which I shall explain. The true amount to the Consolidated Railway Act will be involved was stated, upon a calculation introduced which will clear up any diffi- which I think every one will concur in, culty on that point. I do not myself to be $6,481 per annum. To arrive at think that there was any real ground that calculation 1,000 miles must be for apprehension in the contract as it taken as the distance to which the exempstood. It was urged that the Govern- tion applies. It does not apply to any ment could not reduce the freights below land in Ontario or Manitoba or British a sum which would pay ten per cent. Columbia, but simply to the prairie on the capital of the company. It was section which is in the North-West contended by those who were opposed to Territories, and for those 1,000 miles, the Bill that the meaning of this was the making a calculation that the lands are amount of money used in constructing worth even as much as lands are rated the road whether furnished by the com-at in Ontario, and estimating 12 acres pany or by Government subsidies. The to the mile, which is more than sufficharter fixed the capital at $25,000,000, cient, and, allowing 3,000 acres for and we thought it was clear that it was sidings and buildings, which is also much upon this sum, or so much of it as more than sufficient, and, estimating might be paid up, that the 10 per cent. that land is worth $12.14 an acre - as is applied. It was argued on the other done in many counties in Ontario hand that the rates could not be controlled making the calculation upon the total until the company earned ten per cent. distance on this estimate $132,000 is upon what the road cost, whether in the value of the exempted land on which subsidy or in money. I do not think the railway is built; and assessing it at that construction was the true one, but a rate above the average rate in Ontario, a even if it was, it has been remedied cent and a half, gives $6,481, which is since in the way mentioned in the other the amount, or more than the amount, branch of the Legislature by the Minis- of exemption from taxation, so far as ter of Railways. The Bill to which he regards the railway itself. Now, let us referred will be introduced this session, see whether there is anything unusual and will apply to this railway, and to in exempting railways from taxation. all other railways in the country. Then We all know how ready in this part of it has been objected to this measure, Canada people are to give aid to railthere is an exemption from taxation ways; how ready municipalities are to which is altogether an anomaly and assist them, and how constantly it is which will have the effect of putting a done. I have before me a statement of great many millions into the pocket of the various amounts which have been this company, and depriving the country given in aid of railways by municipalities, same amount of money. I do not think by the different provinces, and by the that I can explain that more clearly or in Dominion. The amounts are as follows: better terms than was used in another By the Dominion...... $66,166,539 place by a gentleman whose attention Ontario had been directed to it. In the first Quebec.... place it was urged by an hon. gentleman in that House that the Hon. Sir. Alex. Campbell. amount ...... 3,915,517 10,877,015 Nova Scotia.... 1,894,350 New Brunswick.... 3,308,000 Total $86,161,422 for ever. $8,000,000 296,000 Total.......... $12,782,000 of that exemption on the volume of taxation of the country is the only contribution the future population of the North-West is making to the cost of construction of the railway. We in this part of the Dominion have contributed to the constructing of railways in all directions at a cost of $98,000,000. The population of the North-West will come party from these provinces, it is true, but chiefly from Europe. Immigrants will settle there and have all the advantages of railway communication, with all the increased value it gives to their property and crops, and the chief contribution which they will make is the additional taxation which the fact of the exemption of these lands will swell the gross burden of the country to. I do not think that can be considered in the least unfair; on the contrary, it seems to me a proposition which is reasonable and right in itself. Altogether a total of $98,000,000 from the Dominion, the provinces and the municipalities. I should think, in the face of that, that it would hardly be contended there was anything unusual or extraordinary in our conceding that point. It must be borne in mind, also, that municipalities are constantly ready to aid railway enterprises. Take the town of Winnipeg, for instance. The other day it offered to give thirty acres of land in the heart of the town for the shops of this Pacific Railway, and to exempt them from taxation We all know that municipalities are constantly anxious to get railThen, we find also that ways to establish works and shops within it has been the custom in the United their limits, and always ready to exempt States. We find that taxation is not them from taxation, and, after all, this imposed on the lands of the Union is the amount of this clause. We have Pacific Railway. We find in the various been told also, that we should not have States of the Union - Minnesota, Daexempted the lands from taxation. I should kotah, and in other States, Texas like to know what company would consider particularly, the lands which have this land grant of value if it was to be been given to railways are exempt taxed the moment they got it. The from taxation. That system may exemption is for twenty years or until possibly have been pushed too far, and it the lands are sold or occupied. If the may be said about the United States lands were taxed immediately, instead of that, although the lands of the being an advantage to the company they railways are exempt from taxawould be a great burden, because almost tion, yet, in consideration of having as soon as settlers get in there the lands these lands, the companies pay a certain might be seriously taxed, and the belief State tax. In most of the States they that they might be would militate very pay a State tax, but not in all, but that much against the use which the company would not affect the actual settlers, or might make of them as a security to help them in their local wants. Suppose borrow money upon. This exemption there was a State or Dominion tax imhas been spoken of elsewhere as worth posed on this Railway, that would not an enormous sum of money, and my assist the settlers, but come to the Dohon. friend the Minister of Railways, was minion revenue here. It would not aid charged with throwing away $23,000,000 the settlers to build roads and bridges, of money by it, and the Union Pacific and would have no direct effect on their was quoted as paying $835,000 a year finances in any way, but would impose a in taxes, whereas it turned out that they burden on the company for the benefit of had paid that sum in seventeen the Government, and not for the benefit years. It is difficult to say what of the settlers of the country. And it the exemption may be worth, but cer- must also be borne in mind that we have tainly more than twenty millions less made the most liberal arrangements than the estimate I refer to. But as regards education for them, by it must be borne in mind that if the which their children and descendants lands are to be exempted for twenty will have lesser and higher eduyears, unless sold or occupied, the effect cation without the expense of a farthing, was made and which was referred to just now, in a remark made by my hon. friend from Richmond. I do not propose to discuss that offer, or to draw the attention of the House to it at present. It does not seem to me to be an offer necessarily involved in the discussion of the scheme on the table, so far as I am concerned, and so far as the duty I am now discharging is concerned, and I desire to present the present scheme without re Let Then, hon. gentlemen, another objection | similar articles in Canada, going into the has been taken, that there is an immunity construction of the Pacific Railway, will from customs duties. The immunity have the same relative advantage over from customs sounded very badly at first, those who are importing into this counapparently. There was a good deal said try as they have now. I have now gone about it, and our friends were very over, I think, the principal objections. I anxious about it, while the opponents of did not intend to refer to every objection, the measure were highly elated to think nor do I intend to bring under the nothey had found such a strong point, as tice of the House the second offer which they thought, against the scheme itself. But when it comes to be debated it does not seem to be a serious thing at all, • and certainly not one which has attracted latterly as much attention as it did at first. I have had a statement prepared of the probable amount of exemptions from duty under the Syndicate contract In the first place we have had the steel rails mentioned, but steel rails are free from duty now, and will be for two years; then there is the duty on fish-ference to it. Nor do I desire to go furplates, they are also free. The Minister ther into the other objections which of Finance, who introduced that measure have been raised. I am content to have which took off the duty, said last year endeavored to place before the House a that the exemption on rails and fish- clear statement of the project itself, and plates would be maintained until the to have answered the more serious objec country is able to produce its own steel tions which have been taken to it. rails, but if it had been for two years us pause one moment to reflect what will certain what would be the result! The probably follow if this contract should company could and would probably have go into execution, as I hope and trust it imported all the steel rails required for will; what a stimulus it will give to all the construction of the Pacific Railway the industries and trade of the country; during the next two years, and they what ships it will bring to our ports could have at once obtained an advance with immigrants; what stimulus it will from the Government for the purpose of give to our manufacturers by the paying for them. The result of this expenditure of enormous sums of money measure may be the construction of steel for the construction of the railway, inrails in the North-West. It is very likely, volving all kinds of articles of trade, indeed, that with this enormous enter- supplies and imports; what a stimulus it prise before them the company may find will give to trade, commerce and manuit to their advantage to utilize the iron factures of every description! What a and coal of the North-West and construct stimulus it will give to immigration and their own steel rails. The duty on the the settlemen of the country; how it steel rails for the whole distance would be will increase the population of the $362,934, and on spikes $17,438, but the North-West; what advantages it will whole of the duties which are affected by afford to those of our fellow subjects in this clause will not, under any circum- England, Ireland and Scotland who may stances, amount to over $120,000; and be anxious to leave their native land it has been announced in another place and still settle under the British flag! I that part of the project which will yet be do not wish to draw invidious comparisubmitted to Parliament will include the sons. I did not refer to what was done making of an allowance to manufacturers by the late Government in any spirit of in this country to balance this exemption party warfare, but I adverted to it for from duty, and put them in the same po- the legitimate purpose of drawing a comsition of advantage which they now hold parison between the efforts put forth by towards foreign manufacturers as regards the two Governments, and, I think, I those items that may be imported duty have established that the effort we are free; so that those who manufacture now making is one far more entitled to · the approval of Parliament and of the in the views which the hon. gentleman country than the one which they has expressed, either in reference to the made. I think I have also established advantages which the country will derive that the arrangement itself, and by itself, from this contract, or the conclusions that is an advantageous contract for the coun- he has drawn as to the relief it will be try. I am afraid that I have detained the to this country to have this road conHouse by a speech of intolerable length, structed under the proposition subbut I was very anxious to submit a clear mitted by the Government. I agree statement of this great scheme, and, if I with the observations with which he have done that, I have accomplished the opened his speech to the House in referfull purpose for which I rose. I trust ence to the obligations we entered upon that the measure will meet with the in 1871 with British Columbia, but the approbation of the House. The fact that we are now, at a period of ten Government look forward with as-years from that date, discussing the prosured hope to its proving of great advan-ject of the Pacific Railway, must be the tage to the country. It's execution best possible evidence that the proposal has been placed in the hands of men who are eminent in the practical work of railway construction, sufficiently skilled and sufficiently experienced, and who have financial resources sufficiently strong tor the project which they have undertaken. I trust they will succeed in their great enterprise, and that those of us who may survive until 1892 will find this work completed, and, through its means, the settlement of many hundreds of thousands of people in the great NorthWest; people who will be enjoying happy and prosperous homes, with prospects as bright as those of the denizens of any part of the world, and who will in the future maintain with us the British flag on this continent, and feel with us that freedom and order are more fully secured under its folds than under any form of government which human genuity has yet invented. of the Government of that day was entirely premature; that the circumstances of the times did not warrant the promise made to British Columbia, when that Province came into the Union, that Canada would, within a period of ten years, construct an all rail route from the Atlantic to the Pacific. We find ourselves, at a period of ten years from that date, now discussing seriously a proposition to build this railway; for, practically, to-day, in the direction of British Columbia, we have not any consecutive line of railway, beyond that very short portion that extends westfward from Winnipeg of the first hundred miles, and the portion from Thunder Bay to Selkirk that is still complete. in No evidence could be stronger that the proposition of that in-day was an extremely imprudent and hasty one on the part of this country. In accordance with the treaty I recognize that it is the duty of this country to build the railway, but to build it only so fast as the circumstances of the Dominion will warrant. Time and again, both during the administration of the late Government and of the administration that preceded it, the principle wast laid down in the House of Commons, and was also embraced in the Act of Parliament of 1874, that this railway should be built no faster than could be prudently done, considering the finances of this country. Its construction was not in any degree to entail additional taxation. In order in some degree to show our earnestness in that work, and to complete the railway within some reasonable time, we have on at least two occasions increased the burden of taxation Hon. Mr. SCOTT -The close attention that the House has given to the observations that have fallen from the leader of the Government are the clearest possible evidence that hon. gentlemen feel the importance of the subject that is now under debate. Certainly, since Confederation, no proposition has ever been submitted to the consideration of this Chamber or the Parliament of Canada involving matters of equal importance with the present one. The hon. gentleman has, in the course of his observations, endeavored to show to this House that it would be to the advantage of this country to, as he says, accept the proposition now before the House. He prophesies very many advantages which are to flow from the passage of this Bill. I do not concur have finally fixed the cost at $100,000,000. three dollars in over millions of upon the people of this country, and there- | $116,000,000. He seemed, however, to fore, I say, we are in a position to-day to take the ground that it is our duty not to push forward that work with greater haste than can be done prudently and consistently with the financial position, of Canada. This subject is one that has excited greater interest than probably any other that has been presented to the people of Canada for many years. It has been debated day by day and night after night in another place for the last seven weeks. The people of Canada have met in the various centres of population and discussed the proposition. In my opinion, the majority of the people of this country are not in favor of the measure now under consideration. That, of course, would be disputed at the outset, but it must be conceded that a very large portion - even if that portion is a minority of the people of Canada- feel that a very grave mistake is being made in forcing this contract through Parliament at the present moment. The Government is endeavoring to justify its conduct by comparing this contract with the terms set forth in the Act of 1874, assuming that proposals for building the Pacific Railway in that year would be applicable and reasonable in the year 1881. The leader of the Government in this House gave in the figures showing the cost of the Grand Trunk Railway, $108,000 per mile as an illustration of what a railway might cost. Would he be prepared to justify the payment of such a rate per mile in the present year? The hon. gentleman thinks we should accept this proposal because it is as good as could be effected under the Act of 1874, and it is equal, in his judgment, to what was proposed under the legislation of 1872. Hon. Sir ALEX. CAMPBELL Better. ascertaining what that cost will be. Year after year blue books have been submitted to us giving the result of the labors of that vast army of engineers and surveyors that have flooded the country between Lake Nipissing and the Pacific coast, and this House has often commented on the extraordinary expense that has been incurred on these surveys. Up to a recent period that land was a terra incognita. No one was prepared to speak confidently of its resources up to the time we took it over from the Hudson's Bay Company. Very few explorers had traversed that country it was known only to the Hudson's Bay Company's people. We have been gathering our information of it since we made the purchase. After we acquired the country we supposed there was a large area of valuable land there, but I think I am safe in saying to-day that if the more recent reports are to be relied on we have a far more valuable territory there than we supposed when we first secured that country ten or twelve years ago. The circumstances to-day very different from the circumstances at the time of the passing of the Act giving the contract to Sir Hugh Allan and those who were associated with him. Many hon. gentlemen in this Chamber have often spoken of that as an excellent contract, a contract under which they believed this work could have been car are Hon. Mr. SCOTT - The hon. gentleman went further, and he gave us esti-ried out. Well, if it was an excellent mates, as he said, of the cost of this contract, when they come to compare the railway, in order, in some degree, to details of that contract with the magnify the labor and cost that the con- details of this proposition, they will tractors have assumed, and I was rather scarcely be justified in saying that the surprised at this day to hear the extra-present contract is a good one for the ordinary quotations he made as to the country. In showing how very unfair building of the Pacific Railway, and the mode of argument assumed by the what it was going to cost the contract- leader of the Government is, in comparAt one time it was up to ing the proposal of 1881 with the Act of $129,000,000; another time, it was 1874, or the charter of 1872, I may ors. |