Mr. MAXWELL. We request that these hearings be held on a nationwide basis. S. 1592 directly affects more than 40 million gun owners and indirectly affects all citizens as an infringement of their right to bear arms. Nationwide hearings have been held on relatively insignificant items such as national parks and wilderness bills. A bill as unprecedented as this one certainly rates such consideration. To summarize, we believe that existing laws present adequate firearms control within the scope of our Constitution, however, we recognize the fact that juveniles and felons are illegally receiving and using firearms. The proposed bill, S. 1592, would not solve this problem. By their very nature, felons and delinquent juveniles do not obey the law, and therefore it is unreasonable to assume that they would obey this one. To actually solve the problem, the offender simply must be convinced that the risk is not worth it. Therefore, enforcement of the responsibility for prosecution and penalization of these individuals for the serious crimes committed with firearms should be our goal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator DODD. I assume you carefully read this bill. Mr. MAXWELL. Yes, I have. Senator DODD. You have been in this activity of the Washington State Sportsmen's Council for quite a while? Mr. MAXWELL. I have. what Senator DODD. A good many years. I suppose you are careful about you say about a bill or a member of a Senate committee. Mr. MAXWELL. I am. Senator DODD. Why did you write a letter saying that I had loaded the witness list here, that those who appeared were proponents of the bill? You don't need to look anything up. There have been 46 wit nesses, and 23 of them have been for the bill and 23 against it. How do you justify writing a Member of the Senate saying we had loaded the witness list with those in favor of it? Twenty-three and twenty-three, I think, is a very fair distribution. Mr. MAXWELL. I think you misunderstand my so-called allegation. May I quote? Senator DODD. I will read it to you. Mr. MAXWELL. Fine. SENATOR DODD (reading): I find specific evidence that the Senator from Connecticut is not interested in listening to criticism of this bill, constructive or otherwise. He is interested only in sandbagging the hearing record with pro testimony coming in and attempt to keep statements of the opponents smothered. Never have I witnessed such an obvious attempt by an organ of the U.S. Government to ride roughshod over our citizens' genuine concern for legislation. Mr. MAXWELL. I think, Senator, the questioning that I have witnessed on the television and the statements that I have read in the press of this committee's activities have been that you have been very rough on the opponents of the bill, and you have been very nice and drawn out the testimony quite lengthily with people that are for the bill, as was witnessed this afternoon. Senator DODD. Have you been at these hearings? Senator DODD. Have you attended the hearings? Mr. MAXWELL. No, I haven't. Senator DODD. You are quite a witness. You certainly wrote in this letter that we had loaded the witness stand with those who were for the bill, and the facts are it is 23 to 23. Now you are telling me how we conducted the hearings, and you have never been at one. Mr. MAXWELL. I tell you what I have seen on the television and in press releases. Senator DODD. Well, Mr. Maxwell, I will put the same amount of value on your testimony as I put on your letter. Mr. MAXWELL. The letter was not addressed to you, sir. It was addressed to Mr. Magnuson. And may I point out to the people that may have not seen the letter, that the reason I wrote the letter was my inability to get onto this hearing for 2 or 3 months. Senator DODD. I will put it all in the record. Mr. MAXWELL. Thank you, sir. I would appreciate that. You wanted to come on ahead of everybody else. Mr. MAXWELL. Not necessarily, sir. I expected an answer. Senator DODD. You got it. We will put all that correspondence in the record. Mr. MAXWELL. I would like also your original letter, if I may, to be put in the record, your original letter to me. Senator DODD. We will put it all in. Mr. MAXWELL. Thank you. Senator DODD. That is all. Mr. MAXWELL. Thank you, sir. Senator DODD. We will recess this hearing until next Tuesday at 10 a.m. (The documents referred to were marked "Exhibits Nos. 144, 145, 146, and 147," and are as follows:) EXHIBIT NO. 144-CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS REGARDING REQUEST OF MR. SAMUEL L. MAXWELL TO TESTIFY AT HEARINGS ON S. 1592 SAMUEL L. MAXWELL, WASHINGTON STATE SPORTSMEN'S COUNCIL, INC. May 14, 1965: Mr. Maxwell addressed letter to Carl Perian, asking for a reserved date and alternate date to testify on S. 1592 (exhibit No. 122). May 17, 1965: Form letter signed by Senator Dodd sent to Mr. Maxwell, informing him that his name would be included among those who have requested to testify on S. 1592 (exhibit No. 123). May 18, 1965: William Beeks, counsel, Commerce Committee, called regarding Maxwell. He was informed that no firm date had been given for Mr. Maxwell's testimony. May 20, 1965: Mr. Beeks, Commerce Committee, called again. He was told that when Mr. Maxwell is called to testify, he [Beeks] would be advised. May 27, 1965: Senator Henry M. Jackson's office called re the Maxwell request to testify. Senator Jackson's office was informed that Mr. Maxwell had not yet been given a date to appear. May 28, 1965: Senator Warren G. Magnuson's office called on behalf of Mr. Maxwell. They were given similar information to that given Senator Jackson. May 28, 1965: Mr. Lou Clapper, National Wildlife Federation, called in behalf of Mr. Maxwell. Mr. Clapper was informed that Mr. Maxwell's letter was on file and that he had not been scheduled on the bill at that time. Mr. Maxwell's letter of May 14 asked that coordination be expedited through Mr. Clapper and Mr. Clapper was informed that when a date had been set, he would be so notified. July 1, 1965: Copy of letter to Senator Warren G. Magnuson from Mr. Maxwell, dated July 1, 1965 (exhibit No. 124). July 8, 1965: Maxwell letter dated July 1, 1965, forwarded to Mr. Carl L Perian, Juvenile Delinquency Subcommittee, by Senator Jackson, with request that he be advised of action taken to schedule Mr. Maxwell's appearance before the subcommittee. EXHIBIT No. 145 Mr. CARL PERIAN, WASHINGTON STATE SPORTS MEN'S COUNCIL, INC., Staff Director, Subcommittee To Investigate Juvenile Delinquency, Senate Judiciary Committee, Senate Office Building, Washington, D.C. DEAR MR. PERIAN: I have been informed that hearings on Senate bill 1592 scheduled for May 19, 20, 21 have been reserved for proponent testimony on 19-20 and a few opponents on the 21st. I also understand the hearings have been extended to June 2, 3, 4. I am chairman of the Washington State Sportsmen's Council Committee on Firearms Legislation. I wish to be scheduled to testify in behalf of the sportsmen of this State at the earliest date possible. To my knowledge no other sporting organization is anticipating sending a representative but will rely on me to represent them or mail in a statement. As a practical matter, we feel it imperative that the people of the Northwest be represented at these hearings and I assure you the testimony will not be run of the mill. I would appreciate receiving a reserved date and an alternate date as soon as possible. For your convenience coordination may be expedited through Mr. Lou Clapper of the National Wildlife Federation. Sincerely, SAMUEL L. MAXWELL. EXHIBIT No. 146 MAY 17, 1965. Mr. SAMUEL L. MAXWELL, DEAR MR. MAXWELL: I am replying to your recent letter with regard to S. 1592, an amendment to the Federal Firearms Act. The bill has been referred to this subcommittee for public hearings and I shall include your name among those who have requested to testify on the bill. We expect to convene hearings sometime in May, and they will continue through June. I appreciate your interest in this problem, and I shall advise you as to the dates on which the hearings will be held. DEAR MR. MAGNUSON: As I noted in my letter of May 14, 1965, I planned to attend the hearings on S. 1592 (Dodd bill) and submit a statement from Washington State. I am dismayed at the lack of cooperation I have received from the subcommittee staff. Senator Dodd answered my request with "We expect to convene hearings sometime in May, and they will continue through June," and that "I shall advise you as to the dates on which the hearings will be held." The letter was dated May 17, the envelope postmarked May 21, and I received same on May 25 due to an address error. As you know the May hearings were beld on May 19, 20, and 21. It is rather obvious the letter was not intended to relay any valid information to me but was a poorly arranged stall. I have received no further correspondence. I have since contacted the Dodd committee, Miss Beaten, through your office and through Mr. Lou Clappar of the National Wildlife Federation several times. The committee refused to divulge any information except to say that I am 1 of 46 scheduled to testify and later amended to say I am 1 of 67 scheduled to testify. Frankly Senator, I am tired of getting the runaround and do not see why Dodd cannot run an organized committee like the rest of the Senate. I find prolific evidence that the Senator from Connecticut is not interested in listening to criticism of his bill, constructive or otherwise. He is interested only in "sandbagging" the hearing records with pro-S. 1592 testimony in an attempt to keep statements of the opponents smothered. Never have I witnessed such an obvious attempt by an organ of the U.S. Government to ride roughshod over honest citizens genuine concern for legislation. Dodd's treatment of those opposing the bill is unparalleled since the famed McCarthy "trials." His unbridled attacks on the old and honorable NRA and the civilian marksmanship program not to mention well-known figures such as Judge Hilliard Comstock and Senator Allott are unprecedented. I think that the very fact Senator Dodd is chairing the committee holding hearings on his own bill is in itself undemocratic in nature. Committee hearings should be clearly unbiased with equal representation both pro and con. Dodd has shown himself to be decidedly biased and to have little, if any, patience with opposition. If this is an example of government for the people, by the people, then my concept of democracy must need adjusting. Although his concern is allegedly juvenile delinquency and mail-order weapons his sweeping legislation knows no boundary and certainly has deviated considerably from its original aims. Senator, I believe it is time for more direct action from the Washington congressional delegation. The people through the legislature passed a memorial. House Joint Memorial 30, cautioning against such legislation. I believe there are 10 States that have passed similar legislation and 4 more are pending. With such support it is time the opponents of this bill exercised some action. Your office did not acknowledge my earlier letter and maybe I am only assuming your opposition to S. 1592. I did so on your past record opposing firearms legislation on the Federal level. I would appreciate your comments on my opinions. At this point in time I am at a complete loss as to what to do. I have not mailed in a statement to Dodd in fear that he may enter it for the record and cancel my personal appearance. On the other hand if I don't mail it in I may lose out altogether. I will be out of State from July 3 through July 9. I would appreciate some advice from your office so that on my return I might take some definite action. Your personal consideration of our dilemma would be ap preciated. Sincerely, SAMUEL L. MAXWELL, Chairman, Firearms Legislation Committee. (Whereupon, at 5 p.m., a recess was taken until 10 a.m., Tuesday, July 27, 1965.) FEDERAL FIREARMS ACT TUESDAY, JULY 27, 1965 U.S. SENATE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON JUVENILE DELINQUENCY, OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, Washington, D.C. The subcommittee (composed of Senators Dodd, Tydings, Burdick, Bayh, Hart, Hruska, Javits, and Fong) met, pursuant to recess, at 10:20 a.m., in room 318, Old Senate Office Building, Senator Thomas J. Dodd (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Present: Senator Dodd. Also present: Carl L. Perian, staff director; William C. Mooney, chief investigator; and R. W. Velde, minority counsel. Senator DODD (presiding). The subcommittee will come to order. Our witness this morning is Mr. Samuel Cummings, president of International Armament Corp. He is the founder and sole owner of International Armament Corp. Where is your principal place of business? Mr. CUMMINGS. Here in the United States. Senator DODD. Do you do business in other parts of the world? Mr. CUMMINGS. Yes, we do. We have offices in England, Finland, Switzerland, Monte Carlo, and various parts of the Western World. Senator DODD. And your residence is what? Mr. CUMMINGS. I beg your pardon? Senator DODD. What is your home address? Mr. CUMMINGS. I am a resident of Monte Carlo. Senator DODD. Monte Carlo? Mr. CUMMINGS. Yes. Senator DODD. But you are an American citizen? Senator DODD. You have a prepared statement, I understand-you may present it. STATEMENT OF SAMUEL CUMMINGS, PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL ARMAMENT CORP. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, my name is Samuel Cummings. I am the president of International Armament Corp. I am here in response to your kind invitation, Mr. Chairman, to comment on S. 1592. I want to come right to the point because I know your time is limited. But, first, let us say, as a firm that makes its living buying and selling guns throughout the world, we are grateful for the intensive 689 |