FEDERAL FIREARMS ACT THURSDAY, JULY 1, 1965 U.S. SENATE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON JUVENILE DELINQUENCY Washington, D.C. The subcommittee (composed of Senators Dodd, Hart, Bayh, Burdick, Tydings, Hruska, Fong, and Javits) met, pursuant to recess, at 9:40 o'clock a.m., in room 318, Old Senate Office Building, Senator Thomas J. Dodd presiding. Present: Senator Dodd presiding. Also present: Carl L. Perian, staff director; and William C. Mooney, chief investigator. Senator DODD. The hearing is called to order. We have as our first witness this morning Commissioner Leonard E. Reisman, deputy commissioner of the New York City Police Department. He is an experienced officer, who actually has been a member of the New York City Police Department himself. He is in charge of legal matters for the department. He served as an assistant attorney general of the State of New York with distinction, and he is, in my judgment, one of the outstanding law enforcement officers of this country, with very wide experience and very competent to testify on this bill. I welcome you and I am glad you are here and thank you for coming. (A telegram from Robert F. Wagner, mayor of New York City, to Senator Thomas J. Dodd dated July 1, 1965, was marked "Exhibit No. 134" and inserted in the record at this point:) EXHIBIT No. 134 NEW YORK, N.Y., June 31, 1965. Senator THOMAS DODD, Committee on the Judiciary, U.S. Senate, Regret that pressing matters make it impossible for me to attend your committee's hearing on Federal Firearms Act. Am sending Deputy Commissioner Leonard Reisman, of New York Police Department, to testify in favor of S. 1592. You have my wholehearted support in your efforts to obtain reasonable control over sale of firearms. ROBERT F. WAGNER. 601 STATEMENT OF LEONARD E. REISMAN, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT, ACCOMPANIED BY LT. PATRICK F. LEARY; DETECTIVE JOSEPH PICCININI; AND DETECTIVE WALTER HEASE Mr. REISMAN. Thank you, Senator. Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, I appear this morning as the representative of the city of New York and of the police commissioner to state their position on this proposed amendment to the Federal Firearms Act. As you are undoubtedly aware, we, in New York City, are presently engaged in an all-out war on crime, particularly on crimes of violence. We have taken drastic steps to implement that fight and we welcome this and other opportunities that may be presented to lend our support to efforts, legislative and otherwise, to suppress crime and criminal activity. Our fundamental aim is to prevent crime and to make its incubation almost impossible wherever and whenever we can. To that end, we strongly believe that the bill being considered before this committee today, if enacted into law, would greatly assist us in this endeavor. To focus on our problem, it is necessary that I present a few statistics for your consideration and evaluation: Last year in our city, there were a total of 2,615 arrests for the illegal possession of dangerous weapons. Of these 1,136, or slightly over 43 percent were of persons under 21 years of age. By far the most popular instruments of violence among these young people are firearms, and this general category includes homemade zip guns, converted starter pistols and blank guns, in addition to pistols and revolvers originally manufactured as such and obtained from various sources and illegally posessed in our city. New York State has some of the most stringent restrictions on the sale and possession of pistols and revolvers. Therefore, attention naturally focuses on the efficacy of our procedures in terms of curtailing illegal traffic in weapons and in the prevention of crime. May I briefly set forth the present legislative enactments of our State? In the State of New York, no one, with certain statutory exceptions, may legally possess a pistol, revolver, or other firearm of a size which may be concealed upon the person unless he has first been issued a license therefor. The procedure for obtaining such a license is very detailed and involves intensive investigation both of the applicant and of his need to possess a firearm. In addition, no one may legally deal in firearms or engage in the business of gunsmith unless he is licensed. Again, the procedure for licensing is most detailed and the investigation is most intensive. Applicants for any of these licenses must be fingerprinted. The fingerprints are then checked not only by our own police department, but also with the New York State Department of Correction, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Additionally, applicants are screened by name with the department of mental hygiene of the State of New York to determine whether at any time the applicant suffered a mental illness or disability. Part of the processing of applications includes a field investigation by the local police authority. In New York City our police department makes this investigation and it involves verification of all statements made by the applicant and interviews with him, as well as with all references of character vouchers supplied by him. The State law further provides that no pistol, revolver, or other concealable firearm may be sold except by a licensed dealer in firearms or by a person in legal possession of the firearm, and then only to a person who is in possession of a specific form issued by the licensing authority which enables the purchaser to legally purchase the firearm. These laws have been described as stringent. They are meant to be. In New York City, only about 17,500 persons out of over 8 million possess pistol licenses. It is our belief that the severity of our laws regarding the possession of concealable weapons has resulted in the saving of many lives which may have been lost either through careless or calculated misuse of such weapons. Notwithstanding the rigidity of our laws, there is a great deal yet to be accomplished. During 1964, the ballistics bureau of our police department examined and tested 3,924 firearms of one kind and another, of which 3,092 were received in connection with criminal cases. The property clerk of the police department received over 6,000 firearms of various types during the same year. Of these about 2,271 were obtained as evidence in criminal cases. The impression which may arise from a cursory view of these figures would be that our laws are not as effective as we would like to believe. I assure you, that is not the case. What these figures do indicate is that despite State legislation which undertakes to control the indiscriminate possession and sale of firearms, there is a definite need for overall legislation at the Federal level to control the interstate traffic in these weapons. In the ideal situation, from the point of view of New York City, it would be most desirable that each of the 50 States enact a uniform firearm act with appropriate licensing provisions which would control the sale and possession of pistols and revolvers to all persons, as well as rifles and shotguns to juveniles. However, this is something that, though highly desirable, remains far in the future. The effectiveness of any legislative procedure controlling the sale and possession of dangerous weapons must be evaluated in two areas: The first of these, and in many discussions the only consideration, is the degree to which availability of contraband weapons exists. There is no doubt that the New York law has not wholly eliminated the illegal traffic in pistols and revolvers. But it has had a great effect in reducing such illegal traffic, as evidenced by the fact that many criminals have armed themselves with rifles and shotguns, because of the problems involved in seeking to obtain pistols or revolvers. However, as long as criminals can obtain weapons more easily in other States both through the mails and by personal purchase, the effort to eradicate the illegal traffic in small arms in the State of New York can never be completely successful. This does not mean that our laws are ineffective. Rather it emphasizes the urgency of more stringent control in other jurisdictions and on a national basis. Another means of evaluating the gun laws of the State of New York is to consider the simple fact that we are able to make many arrests for the illegal possession of pistols and revolvers before the possessor has had the opportunity to commit a crime of violence. On this score we have had a substantial degree of success. We have been able to prevent many crimes of violence by such arrests. Many of those convicted for illegal possession of pistols and revolvers were undoubtedly planning armed robberies, assaults, and even homicides. I would like to emphasize as strongly as possible this vital point of crime prevention. One of the most important theories in criminal law-and one of the most important functions of law enforcementis the prevention of crime wherever possible. In many areas the law makes certain conduct illegal and criminal before the actual violent act has occurred. The whole theory of prosecuting for conspiracies and for attempts reflects the community desire to afford protection whenever possible by stopping a course of criminal conduct before violence has erupted. We should not have to wait idly by until robberies have been perpetrated or citizens murdered before the forces of law and order are brought into play. Thus, in our considered judgment, and based on our accumulated experience, stringent gun laws are of inestimable value in the fight against crime and should be supported and extended wherever possible. And, I repeat, the lack of complete effectiveness in the enforcement of New York State's gun laws is based in large measure on the lack of uniformity of such laws throughout all of our States. Only when this is accomplished will the objective of keeping illegal weapons to an absolute minimum be attained. But getting to the bill presently under consideration, an area of considerable concern to anyone interested in public safety would be covered by its ultimate enactment. That is the matter of starter pistols (blank cartridge) which are sold widely through magazines by mail order and are also imported into this country. These are of concern because of their extremely low price, about $6.95 retail, and the relative ease with which they can be obtained by almost anyone by mail, regardless of age, and converted into working concealable fire arms. One example of the abuses possible under existing legislation was unearthed by our police department when it was discovered that one type of starter pistol with a plugged barrel was being imported into our State, followed by a second, separate shipment of bored, rifled barrels, threaded at one end. By removing a pin, unscrewing the plugged barrel and replacing it with a bored, rifled barrel and then replacing the pin, the starter pistol was converted into a working, lethal firearm, capable of firing a .22-caliber bullet. The entire conversion took a matter of minutes. Mr. Chairman, I refer you to the display board at my right. In the upper lefthand corner of that board is the type of weapon that I have been referring to. You see there the starter pistol as originally shipped, and right under it the additional barrel which can be inserted in a matter of moments. In this same area in another case, a do-it-yourself gunsmith was making out-of-State bulk purchases of starter pistols at a cost of a’-out $5.80 each. He would then, at his residence, disassemble these pistols, |