Mr. HELLSTROM. Only as it would affect the reputation of the industry and public treatment of future firearms legislation. Senator DODD. Do you think it might result in reduced sales? Mr. HELLSTROM. I think the failure of passage of a law which would in some manner control these fly-by-night operators will create far more ill effect for us than passage. Senator DODD. Then it does not seem to me that the passage of this bill will adversely affect the legitimate gun manufacturer. That is why I asked the questions. I do not believe it will. Mr. HELLSTROM. I do not think it will in general terms, Senator. As I say, I do definitely disagree with certain methods used in this bill, but as far as the end results are concerned, we are with you all the way. Senator DODD. I had a personal experience last fall when I was campaigning for reelection in Connecticut. I went through some of the gun manufacturing companies and I was rather worried about what kind of a reception I would get. To my pleasant surprise, I was very warmly received by the workers. I inquired after several of them had spoken to me about this bill as to why they were for it. I was amazed at how much they knew about it. These are people actively engaged in the arms industry. We have three quite large companies in my State, as you know. So they seem to know that this will not put them out of jobs or otherwise handicap them or hinder them. Mr. HELLSTROM. I think you will find more objection from Seaport Traders, sir. Senator DODD. That is right. Thank you very much, Mr. Hellstrom. You have been very helpful. I might say we have always enjoyed our relationship with you. As I said, the testimony this morning has been constructive and helpful. I think we differ on some of these things, but I do not think we are too far apart. Mr. HELLSTROM. Thank you, sir. Senator DODD. We will recess these hearings until next Wednesday at 10 o'clock. (Whereupon, the subcommittee recessed at 11:55 a.m., to reconvene Wednesday, June 30, 1965, at 10 a.m.) FEDERAL FIREARMS ACT WEDNESDAY, JUNE 30, 1965 U.S. SENATE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON JUVENILE DELINQUENCY Washington, D.C. The subcommittee (composed of Senators Dodd, Hart, Bayh, Burdick, Tydings, Hruska, Fong, and Javits) met, pursuant to recess, at 9 a.m., in room 318, Old Senate Office Building, Senator Thomas J. Dodd presiding. Present: Senators Dodd, Burdick, Hruska, and Javits. Also present: Carl L. Perian, staff director; and William C. Mooney, chief investigator. Senator DODD. Mr. Foote? Our first witness will be Mr. Frank Foote, section chief, Game, Forestation, and Parks Commission of Nebraska. Senator HRUSKA. Mr. Chairman, I have a few introductory remarks here which I should like to make at this time. It is a pleasure to introduce Mr. Frank Foote, section chief of the Nebraska Game, Forestation, and Parks Commission. Mr. Foote acts in a dual capacity this morning. He, of course, represents the views of his own agency. But he also acts as an emissary of the Nebraska Unicameral Legislature to present a resolution of that body on the subject matter of this hearing. Mr. Foote comes well qualified to represent the interests of the Nebraska State government, having served as a State official for almost 10 years. He has also served a term as one of the six regents at the University of Nebraska. He is a sportsman and a farmer. The point of view he represents is responsible and constructive. It is born of experience on a day-today basis with that great segment of our population who participate in hunting and other outdoor sports activities. He has attended several prior sessions of this subcommittee, this being the fourth time he has been scheduled to appear before us. He has previously testified on firearms legislation before the Senate Commerce Committee. So he comes well qualified to share with us the benefit of his experience. I know that this committee will listen attentively to his testimony and give it due consideration. 547 49-588-65 -36 STATEMENT OF FRANK FOOTE, SECTION CHIEF, NEBRASKA GAME, FORESTATION, AND PARKS COMMISSION Mr. FOOTE. Thank you, Senator Dodd. Mr. Chairman, gentlemen, my name is Frank Foote. I am employed by the Nebraska Game, Forestation, and Parks Commission and I am representing that commission today at its specific request. The commission, with whom I am employed, is composed of seven citizens of our State who are a policymaking and executive board charged with direction of many forms of outdoor recreation and resource management. Hunting, fishing, boating, State parks, State historical parks, water pollution, and the general field of wildlife restoration, preservation, and utilization are major areas in which we operate. We are also an enforcement agency, charged generally with violations in the above fields, but also with general enforcement pow ers in emergency situations. An area of specific concern to our commissioners is the continued attempts from some quarters to restrict and harass the legitimate ownership, use, and enjoyment of firearms and ammunition. Now, Mr. Chairman, the commission for which I work is in no way composed of extremists or rightwingers. These men, all of them, are middle-of-the-road Democrats and Republicans. They believe, and wish, through me, to forcefully present, the position that the second amendment applies to all who have not, upon conviction of felonies, lost certain of their civil rights, or to the mentally disturbed. They believe that the personal ownership and reasonable enjoyment of firearms is important to our continuing as a free Nation of free men. This position does not preclude some reasonable regulation as may be required by conditions of modern urbanized American life. However, the commission does most strongly oppose the compulsory registration of firearms or laws or regulations which could tend to a partial regis tration of firearms, particularly nonconcealable sporting rifles and shotguns. In this connection, we believe that section 3(g) of S. 1592 has within it certain dangers tending toward involuntary registration. or is a precursor to registration, although S. 1592 is not oriented toward registration per se. This is not to say that the commission blindly opposes all efforts in this field. We do believe that present firearms laws, and, indeed all laws relating to the criminal misuse of firearms, should be more strongly enforced and that more stringent penalties for violations of this nature should be enacted and applied. In this connection, the commission has gone on record formally with a written resolution. which I would present for your consideration at this time. Senator HRUSKA. It will be inserted in the record at this point. (The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 122" and is as follows:) EXHIBIT No. 122 RESOLUTION OF THE GAME, FORESTATION, AND PARKS COMMISSION Whereas tragic events have caused certain ill-advised public officials and others to search for a likely scapegoat; and Whereas those who have continually favored stringent controls on all types of firearms now are pressing their cause before the bar of public opinion; and Whereas all past experience strongly indicates that firearms controls or registration merely tends to disarm the law-abiding citizen and allow the criminal and psychopath to proceed unimpeded; and Whereas no nation in modern times has fallen to tyranny without first having imposed upon itself a strict system of firearms control and registration; and Whereas it is a truism that firearms, in and of themselves, are not criminal or dangerous: Now, therefore, be it Resolved by the Nebraska Game, Forestation and Parks Commission, That this commission strongly urges the appropriate public officials, local, State, and Federal, to prosecute to the limit of the law those criminals who employ firearms in crimes of violence, and those who violate present laws regarding the ownership, sale, and use of firearms. This commission also urges the appropriate State and Federal legislative bodies to enact stricter penalties for violation of the above laws. This commission also, by this resolution, indicates its firm opposition to enactment of any new laws or regulations of a local, State, or Federal nature, which would tend to harass or prohibit the ownership and enjoyment of sporting or target-type firearms by honest, law-abiding citizens. The commission adopts this position because of its firm belief, based on evidence and experience, that further restrictions on firearms will, in no way, prevent or deter crime. Op adoption, the commission directs that this resolution be spread at large upon its minutes, and that copies thereof be sent to the Governor of Nebraska, the Nebraska Legislature, and to all members of the Nebraska congressional delegation and to the appropriate public news media. Dated this 15th day of January 1965. Mr. FOOTE. We think that, in some cases, duly constituted authorities are not using fully the tools available to them now, the National and Federal Firearms Acts. At this point, with your permission, I might cite some examples of this to bear this out. In our enforcement work we occasionally apprehend individuals in violation of game laws or in routine checking who are in possession of weapons that are in clear violation of the National or Federal Firearms Act. Such weapons as sawed-off rifles, sawed-off shotguns. As a matter of course, we seize these weapons and turn them over to the proper authorities of the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Agency. To our knowledge, there has never been a prosecution resulting from these seizures. In addition, we are well acquainted with the enforcement representatives of the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Agency, and I am acquainted with some personnel in and outside of Nebraska. Part of their work, of course, is devoted to alcohol and tobacco taxation, but certainly part of it is for enforcement of the Federal Firearms Act. It has been reported to me by these men, good officers, that they have apprehended individuals in serious violations of the present Firearms Act, men with a record, convicted felons, transporting weapons across State lines they got the information, the evidence, turned it over to the proper prosecuting authorities. The U.S. Attorney's Office, representatives of Mr. Katzenbach, and formerly Mr. Kennedy, have been before this committee requesting more stringent laws. And yet no action has been taken. This concerns us. The Nebraska Game, Forestation and Parks Commission is in a position to support some further constructive legislation if the need therefor can clearly be shown. I believe, personally, that the commission would support S. 1965, introduced by Senator Hickenlooper, in its present form. |