Photograph of 81 mm Russian Mortar (Exhibits 71 through 74 contain weapons purchased by subcommittee consultant who was a provisional member of the paramilitary group "The Minutemen".)

EXHIBIT No. 75

Photograph of hand grenades, bazooka rockets, rockets, and 81 mm mortar shell

In 1964, there were 391 murders in ne city of Chicago, and of these, 191 were the result of the use of firearms.

In the 191 murders in which guns were used, there were three 13year-old juveniles involved, there were two 14-year-olds, there were seven 15-year-olds, and eleven 16-year-olds.

Of minors involved in these murders, six were 17-year-olds, six were 18-years of age, and five were 19, and one was 20.

I merely cite these figures to indicate the problem as it relates to juveniles and minors.

To give you some idea as to how plentiul guns are, I would like to relate an incident that took place in Chicago in 1960. This may be hard to believe when you consider that this incident took place on a CTA bus, which is our transit system in Chicago. It was late in December of 1960, on a CTA bus, on Roosevelt Road in Chicago, when a passenger was unable to get off at his usual stop. This passenger became enraged and stated "I am going to get off this bus if I have to blast my way off." With that, he fired four shots, wounding several riders. Another of the passengers, incensed at the audacity of the blasting CTA rider, took out a gun and fired back, wounding several more riders. This happened in a supposedly civilized city on a bus carrying citizens to and from their work.

I merely mention that because it is almost hard to believe that on a bus carrying people to and from work, out of the 60 or 80 passengers on the bus, two of them would have firearms.

Getting back to the juveniles and minors for just a minute, I would like to cite another instance. This happened in August of 1964, where an 18-year-old youth and a 16-year-old youth were examining four pistols that belonged to the 18-year-old. The 18-year-old youth handed the 16-year-old a loaded pistol, admonishing him to be careful because it was loaded. However, the 16-year-old removed the clip and then pulled the trigger. The gun discharged, striking the 18year-old in the face, killing him.

Just another instance of senseless killing.

The scope of the problem in Chicago as regards to felons-and here I think I would like to go back to the study that was made in response to a request by this committee. In a search of the records that was made in Chicago, we searched the names of 4,069 persons who had purchased guns from three California mail-order firms, and the following facts were revealed:

The search disclosed that 948 of these 4,069 persons had an arrest record of some kind. Of the 948, 13 had been arrested for murder. 38 for robbery, 42 for burglary, 111 for various types of assault, 83 for carrying concealed weapons, 426 for disorderly conduct, 229 were arrested for various other crimes, including larceny, larceny from auto, gambling, resisting arrest, causing a disturbance with a gun, narcotics investigation, and sex offenses.

We also found that some 20 guns bearing the same serial numbers as those purchased from these mail-order firms had been used in recent crimes. I am sure the figure was limited to 20 because in the case of over 2,600 gun records that we were given, no serial numbers of the guns were provided.

Senator DODD. I might point out that company, Seaport Traders, just doesn't provide serial numbers. That is why we could not give them to you.

Mr. MILLER. Yes.

Getting back to the scope of the problem, I believe I have covered the seriousness of the mail-order problem as far as the statistics that we gave.

Önce again, we feel that the legislation as it is written would prevent the sale and shipment of these weapons to the 4,069 persons who received them in Chicago. And since 25 percent of this number, according to our records, has a previous arrest history, we do feel that the problem is a serious one.

Senator DODD. Do you feel that you have adequate law in Illinois. in Chicago, to handle the gun problem within your own city and State?

Mr. MILLER. We do have an adequate ordinance in the city of Chicago. However, it is rendered impotent because there is no law that restricts the sale and shipment interstate, and by this factor our State legislature-I am sure that this is one of the reasons they have not taken any action to provide legislation that would restrict the sale of firearms in the State of Illinois-because by so doing they would merely be penalizing each firearm dealer in Illinois by saying a resident of Illinois cannot purchase from an Illinois dealer-he must go out of State, by mail order.

Senator DODD. Yes, I understand.

Well, this has been helpful testimony. Certainly it seems to me that it points up the very fundamental question involved in the legis lation before us. This study made by the Chicago Police Department,. at our request, reveals that 25 percent of the persons who received mailorder weapons had criminal records in Chicago. And this pattern, I might say to you, Commander Miller, is apparent throughout the whole country. It is about the same proportion-higher in some places than in others, but it is a substantial percentage throughout the whole country. In one city after another, anywhere from 25 to as high as 30 percent of those who buy mail-order guns have prior criminal records. Do you think that if this bill is passed, it would help to curb the crime situation in Chicago?

Mr. MILLER. Yes, I do. I am sure that by reducing the number of irresponsible persons who have guns-I am sure crimes, especially those in which guns are used, would certainly be reduced.

Senator DODD. In criticism of this bill, I have heard people say that criminals don't buy guns; they steal them. Do you have any opinion about that? Mr. MILLER. Yes, I am sure they do both. stolen by criminals each year in Chicago. guns purchased by criminals in our State.

There are numerous guns There are, likewise, many

I might mention just one example of something that occurred in

1963.

On November 29, 1963, there was a holdup in a tavern at 1801 Blue Island Avenue in Chicago. During the holdup, there were two males killed. The assailant, who was identified as an escapee from the prison at Crown Point, Ind., was later captured in a gun battle by police in Indianapolis, Ind. When he was captured, he had in his possession a new gun which he had purchased in Illinois under a fictitious name, and he had purchased this gun subsequent to the killing of the two Mexicans in the holdup of the tavern.

Once again, here is a nonresident felon who was able to go outside the city limits of Chicago and purchase a gun, which he later used in attempting to prevent capture, and he used it against police in Indiana.

Senator DODD. Commander, I must say, and I should have said earlier, that the study which you have made by the way, you are in charge of the records, are you not, of the police department? Mr. MILLER. Yes, sir.

I might give you just a little of my background. For about 3 years I was director of the Records and Communications Division of the Chicago Police Department under Superintendent Wilson, and it is only in the past 8 months that I have been commander of the fifth district in the city of Chicago.

To give you one more example of the inane killing that can result from the presence of firearms, I would like to cite one more example. On the 24th of November 1963, a radio message had been broadcast to all Chicago police calling their attention to the fact that a blue Pontiac with a license unknown had been stolen. Two officers of our task force observed a blue Pontiac with two men seated in it. They approached the vehicle, and when attempting to question the occupants, one of the occupants fled. He was pursued by one of the