Mr. WALSH. Thank you very much for your testimony. Just one question.

The Library of Congress, as you know, is in the process of digitizing lots of information. They have to make priorities. Obviously, they can't do it all, and they have to determine what comes first. Are organizations like the ones you represent involved in setting those priorities for the Library of Congress in terms of what becomes available electronically?

Mr. OAKLEY. In terms of just working with them internally?

Mr. WALSH. Yes. Is there an advisory, ad hoc advisory structure? Mr. OAKLEY. I am not on any specific advisory committees, but I do know that they seek input on quite a regular basis from a variety of groups. There is an organization called the Network Advisory Committee, which is set up to advise the Librarian of Congress on networking-related issues, and other groups that would provide input into some of those kinds of decisions.

Mr. WALSH. Given what knowledge you have currently, would you agree that the decisions the Library of Congress is making so far on what information it makes available first on a priority basis are the right decisions?

Mr. OAKLEY. Without micromanaging, yes, I think many of the projects they have done are very exciting. If you have an opportunity to look at some of them on the World Wide Web, I think you will agree. There are some Civil War photographs and many, many historic documents that are very exciting.

Indeed, I would extend an offer to you or to other Members of the committee or staff to come to Georgetown, if you have the opportunity, not only to see a depository library, a working depository library, but to look at some of these electronic resources on the World Wide Web.

Mr. WALSH. Just one last note, and it is a personal note, being in the library community, I would suspect it is fairly closely knit. There is a fellow named Dan Casey from Syracuse, who was very involved in the Library Organization. Do you recall him?

Mr. OAKLEY. He is not a person I know. I did go to library school in Syracuse.

Mr. WALSH. He is deceased now. He was a tremendous advocate for the Public Library System; as you are, too.

Mr. Serrano.

Mr. SERRANO. Just one comment. I know you have supported what the Library of Congress is doing.

In my conversations with them, I was discussing the fact that they have access to a lot of information in this country and they commented to me that sometimes that information gets divided between them and the Smithsonian. And I was just wondering if you, as one who has not come here only as a witness but as one who is head of some organizations, any thoughts on how we can deal with that? It seems that is a bigger problem than I thought.

For instance, I was discussing with them the fact that the Sinatra family is interested in turning everything from that 60-year career over to the Library, but then the Smithsonian wants part of it, too. And some would be on display and some would be in the Archives. So all of a sudden, you have a family who says here, and two institutions saying how do we use it, how do we take it? And

how does the public, which is my interest, get to see what this means in this particular case?

Mr. OAKLEY. I don't think the library community would necessarily have a position on which of two public institutions should house this material. But I do think that the overriding issue is the last one that you flagged, which is to make sure that these treasures are not lost to the American public. And that could well be done through either the Library of Congress or the Smithsonian. Mr. SERRANO. But not both?

Mr. OAKLEY. Obviously, again, they can't be in two places at the same time, of course. Although to the extent that organizations

Mr. SERRANO. Well, with regard to being in two places at the same time, I should have clarified this. The Smithsonian may want Cole Porter's piano and the Library may want Cole Porter's arrangements, or Ellington's, and it gets into that. And it is not somewhere where you can take a young music student or anyone and say, look, here is a national treasure and it is available for you to look at.

Mr. OAKLEY. There are interesting aspects of that. Clearly, the Library's primary business is in the collection of written documents. That might include sheet music or phonograms and so on. It is less likely to include artifacts such as a piano itself, although it has been known.

But another thing that they can do, where they can share, is to the extent that these digitization projects move forward, they can be in more than one place at the same time. And, indeed, some of the kinds of projects that are under way are for the digitization of music and that music could then be made available over the World Wide Web and shared with everyone. It could be very exciting. Mr. WALSH. Mr. Latham, any questions?

Mr. LATHAM. Being from Iowa, I think we should be very conscious of the Music Man, Meredith Wilson. I live 30 miles from River City.

Mr. OAKLEY. I have always been very much in the forefront of the development of network resourcing. We appreciate your efforts. Mr. LATHAM. We have fiber optics in almost every county and community in the State right now.

Mr. WALSH. Iowa has been way ahead for a long time. That may explain why you are such a good pool player.

Mr. LATHAM. Thank you.

Mr. WALSH. Being from River City. He is, too.

Mr. LATHAM. I am still waiting for the check, too.

Mr. WALSH. We have just a couple more witnesses, and we have about 11 minutes. So we will let Mr. Oakley go and thank him for his testimony.

Mr. WALSH. If we could bring the other witnesses before us, that would keep you from having to come back again sometime, if we could bring the other three forward.

Thank you.

Mr. OAKLEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SERRANO. Thank you.

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 1997.

WITNESSES

JOEL STERN, AFSCME LOCAL 2477

CHRISTINE SCHOLLENBERGER, AFSCME LOCAL 2910

DENNIS M. ROTH, CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH EMPLOYEES ASSOCIATION

Mr. WALSH. We have Joel Stern, AFSCME Local 2477, Library of Congress; Christine Schollenberger, AFSCME Local 2910, Library of Congress; and also Dennis M. Roth, Congressional Research Employees Association, Congressional Research Service. Welcome, all of you.

I believe we have your testimony. We do.

We have curriculum vitae.

Why don't you decide who goes first and we will sit and listen. Ms. SCHOLLENBERGER. We are very democratic.

Mr. WALSH. Please.

Ms. SCHOLLENBERGER. My name is Christine Schollenberger and I am the President of AFSCME Local 2910.

We represent approximately 1,400 professional employees at the Library. We have our professionals, our librarians. We represent catalogers, reference people. We represent people in copyright, nurses, computer specialists, attorneys, legal specialists, basically your employees who are from a GS-9 to a GS-15 but are nonsupervisory.

We are happy to be here today and we are here to express some concerns and to certainly support the Library's budget request. Not to be repetitive, needless to say, we support the Integrated Library System and the other automation efforts.

I would suggest to you, we were invited to a very interesting briefing on the ILS that was short, to the point and very comprehensive. You might want to take advantage of that. I think what is very interesting is that the reason the Library is moving now is that now is the time that the technology has been available and the sophistication of the technology.

Small libraries have had integrated systems but they haven't been systems which the Library, though, was suited to something of our size. So the State of Illinois now has integrated. There are some big projects. So the technology is there, it is on the edge and that is why the Library, I think, is ready to go now. And I think that is something for you to consider.

In the area of security, we are happy to welcome the new Director of Security. We are hoping that he comes on board soon and provides us with a coordinated, comprehensive security system which is aimed not only at our collections but also at providing a secure environment for all of us here on Capitol Hill.

One of the things that has occurred to us, and it is-whether it is a perception or not, is that we all read the newspapers, but those of us at the Library, when something disappears or something happens, it appears that it is always a knee-jerk reaction.

It began with the closing of the stacks, and it continues even today apparently, when we mysteriously find doors locked in the morning that were open the previous day. So we are looking forward to this Director of Security and a comprehensive program.