commercial standard when in fact it did not, then it would become an action for the Federal Trade Commission.

- Dr. LUBIN. Could any taxpayer write you a letter and ask for those specific standards even though they weren't promulgated? Would you put them out yourself? Would you make that information public?

Mr. MARTINO. If they were not promulgated? No; because they are not approved standards.

(Representative Williams took the chair.)

Dr. LUBIN. What we are trying to get at is this. The Bureau of Standards makes these specifications and says: This should be the standard. Now, the industry refuses to accept those, in other words 65 percent of the industry refuses to accept those. The information is available. You know what you think the standard should be. Despite the fact that it is never publicly promulgated, is that information available to the taxpayer?

Mr. MARTINO. That is a question that I really couldn't answer because if the standard is not promulgated we just do not consider that information any more, we just forget about it.

Dr. LUBIN. I didn't forget about it. I would like to know what that standard is so when I buy that product I could ask for and read those specifications.

Mr. MARTINO. You see, that information would be incomplete because if the standard were not developed, that would mean there were some essentials lacking; that is that the majority of the industry would not accept it because of certain defects. If we gave out that kind of information, in many cases it would probably represent misinformation and not the accurate consensus of opinion of the industry.

Dr. LUBIN. I am not interested in consensus of opinion of the industry; I am as a purchaser interested in the opinion of the Bureau of Standards which drew up these specifications.

Mr. MARTINO. We don't draw them up. We do not draw up the specifications. We have nothing to do with the development of those commercial standards. Those are purely industry standards and it is up to industry to arrive at an agreement upon what should be a proper standard. We have nothing to do with that.

Dr. LUBIN. What do you do, then?

Mr. MARTINO. We are merely a cooperating agency whereby we have these various groups meet with the Bureau of Standards. It is done through the Bureau of Standards procedure. We assist them in technical advice, but as far as the development of the standard itself is concerned, that is purely up to industry.

Dr. LUBIN. Do you people have your experts or technicians check on these standards to see whether they are reasonable?

Mr. MARTINO. That is right.

Dr. LUBIN. So you do play a part.

Mr. MARTINO. We play a part in rendering technical assistance. Dr. LUBIN. Let's assume a certain standard were submitted to you and your technicians said, "These are good standards," but because of some difficulty in the industry you couldn't get 65 percent of the industry to accept them, yet your technicians having approved them,

124491-39-pt. 8-11

could I, as a taxpayer, get you to tell me what your technicians have approved of?

Mr. MARTINO. I suppose you could. Of course, not being a technical man myself, I couldn't very well answer the question. As I said in the beginning, I am merely speaking in a general way.

There is another activity going on at the Bureau of Standards, in fact has been going on for some 13 years, and that is in connection with the development of a label plan. We have been encouraging manufacturers to put on commodities, labels which indicate that the commodities comply with the requirements of certain nationally recognized specifications such as Federal specifications, commercial standards, or specifications of some technical bodies like the American Standards Association, the American Society for Testing Materials, and we believe that that is something in the interest of the consumer and that many manufacturers are receptive to the idea. many of them are willing to indicate on the label if the commodities do comply with certain technical requirements of specifications.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Can you tell us what commodities consumers buy that are generally available in the market with that label on? Frankly, I have never seen one.

Mr. MARTINO. You have never seen one?

Mr. MONTGOMERY. I don't think so. Maybe I wouldn't recognize it. Mr. MARTINO. There are labels on brooms, dry cells, Portland cement, lime, rope, dental alloys, furniture.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. What kind of label would be on furniture? Mr. MARTINO. One that comes to my mind is on a piece of ordinary furniture, saying that this is genuine mahogany, guaranteed by the association.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Do you mean that is in general use, if we go out to the furniture store at lunch time and go around, would we find that on most of the furniture in the stores?

Mr. MARTINO. I had occasion to find it 3 or 4 months ago when I had to furnish a house from top to bottom and in several instances I was able to spot the label on certain types of furniture; on two or three grades of furniture, of course, it was a very easy matter for me to select the one I wanted. I took the one with the label on it. Mr. MONTGOMERY. Did the label show the grade?

Mr. MARTINO. Yes; it showed the grade and also the character of the guarantee statement by the association that it was genuine mahogany.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Is that label available on most of the furniture, you say, or just a certain proportion?

Mr. MARTINO. On a small proportion.

There are labels on lamps. Woodward & Lothrop had quite a display of lamps not so long ago, lamps that are guaranteed to meet the standards of the Illuminating Engineering Society, tested by the Electrical Testing Laboratories. They call those I. E. S. lamps. Incidentally, I might say they are very good lamps, too, and somewhat cheaper in price than other lamps on the market.

Another activity that is going on at the Bureau of Standards at the present time is the investigation of building materials for the purpose of developing low-cost housing. That activity was started some 2 years ago at the instance of the Central Housing Committee, made

up of representatives of various Federal agencies of the Government interested in housing.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Are you familiar with the wallpaper standards developed in the days of the N. R. A.?

Mr. MARTINO. You mean the commercial standards of wallpaper? Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes.

Mr. MARTINO. In a general way.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Was there a request from the Consumers' Advisory Board that those standards include a standard of washability and, I think, also color fastness? 1

Mr. MARTINO. Yes.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Were those two items included in the standards? Mr. MARTINO. I think color fastness was not included in the standard. That matter was referred to the standing committee of that particular standard, and what they did I don't know.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Who were on the standing committee? What industries?

Mr. MARTINO. Representatives of manufacturers, distributors, and consumers. We always pick a standing committee composed of those three interests. That standard, incidentally, is somewhat out of date. It is my understanding that the industry is now thinking about developing a new standard to include those features.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Do you know whether the Boiler and Radiator Institute during 1938 brought this code of theirs to the Bureau for assistance in getting it adopted as a standard?

Mr. MARTINO. No; I don't.

I believe that covers, gentlemen, in a general way what the Bureau does. If there are other questions you would like to ask I will be very glad to answer them.

Mr. O'CONNELL. You spoke very briefly about the work that the Bureau has been doing recently in connection with building materials. Could you elaborate a little bit on that as to what you do and what you intend to do?

Mr. MARTINO. I would rather include that in a statement that will come from the director of the Bureau.2 I am familiar with the activity but I do not know much about the technical details.

Acting Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other questions?

If not, it is the understanding that you want to submit a statement?

Mr. MARTINO. I believe that is what the Senator requested and I will be very glad to ask the Director of the Bureau of Standards to submit a statement on the functions and activities of the Bureau of Standards for this committee's consideration."

Acting Chairman WILLIAMS. All right. You submit that for the committee for its consideration.

1 Under date of May 25, 1939, the Director of the National Bureau of Standards submitted a memo re commercial standards of wall paper, which was entered in the record as "Exhibit No. 639" during hearings held May 29, 1939, and is included in the appendix to this Part on p. 3475.

Under date of May 25, 1939, the Director of the National Bureau of Standards submitted a statement of the functions and activities of the Bureau, which was entered in the record as "Exhibit No. 639" during hearings held May 26, 1939, and is included in the appendix to this Part on p. 3475.

Ibid.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. If you can get a copy for the record tomorrow showing the reference made to that other standard you probably will want to explain that situation, because if these men just had the letter they wouldn't know why it was.

Mr. MARTINO. I will be glad to do that.

Acting Chairman WILLIAMS. You put anything in that statement that you please and submit it to the committee for our consideration. The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock.

(Whereupon, at 12:15 p. m. a recess was taken until 2 p. m. of the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

The committee resumed at 2:35 p. m. on the expiration of the

recess.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will please come to order. Mr. Montgomery, you are ready to proceed?

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes; Mr. Chairman. Mr. Maddux.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Maddux, do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give in this proceeding shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. MADDUX. I do.

TESTIMONY OF MILTON R. MADDUX, PURCHASING AGENT FOR HAMILTON COUNTY, OHIO

USE OF STANDARDS IN PURCHASES OF CONSUMER GOODS BY PUBLIC AGENCIES

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Will you state your name, please?

Mr. MADDUX. Milton R. Maddux, 1628 Llanfair Avenue, Cincinnati, Ohio.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Tell us what your occupation is, Mr. Maddux. Mr. MADDUX. I am the purchasing agent for the County of Hamilton, Cincinnati.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Do you in that position purchase consumer goods?

Mr. MADDUX. Yes; some of our items are consumers' goods, although we buy them in large quantities.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Will you just give us a list of some of the consumer goods that you buy?

Mr. MADDUX. A few of them are coal, textiles, clothing, paints, lubricants, soaps, cleaning compounds, disinfectants, insecticides. canned goods, meats, flour, brooms, blankets, shoes, pillows, and hospital goods-things of that type-automobile batteries, furniture and floor polish, and many others.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. I would like to point out to the committee the purpose of this testimony is to show by contrast how consumers' goods can be bought in specific ways in which savings can be effected or the exact quality desired can be obtained by purchasing on a formal and scientific basis in contrast with the way consumers have described heretofore, the way they make their purchases. I think the testimony will bring out some very interesting possibilities for consumers, if something of a similar nature could be made available to them.

I think that can be developed better by the witness when we get through. Will you describe for us in general the purchasing plan with which you operate?

Mr. MADDUX. I will read a short paper here, or part of one, that I worked up a few weeks ago for university students concerning the purchasing of supplies, materials, and services for 33 departments and institutions, departments in the County of Hamilton, which is centralized. The purchasing also is coordinated with the City of Cincinnati and the Board of Education. Purchases of each of these political subdivisions approximates or exceeds $1,000,000 a year; total purchases approximate $6,000,000 a year for the three coordinated units.

The purchasing plan and system of all three units is generally the same; each purchasing agency strives to promote competition fairly and adequately, and constantly works to attain a goal of complete and adequate specifications for every competitive item purchased. Each unit has its particular laws and statutes under which it operates. Essentially there are only technical differences, which are small obstacles in the matter of coordinating purchases.

The purchasing agents of these units, including the agent of the University of Cincinnati, meet once a week and act upon bids on commodities or services taken for the joint requirements. They develop uniform specifications wherever possible and consider matters of policy of purchasing jointly with supervised testing, and act according to their combined best judgment. The county purchasing department individually serves the Tuberculosis Hospital, County Home, and Chronic Disease Hospital, County Jail, Juvenile Detention Home, County Engineers-that is the highway department, 28 administrative departments, such as the auditor, recorder, clerk of courts, sheriff, and others.

Uniform requisition procedure is employed with the exception of certain emergency items, and agreements are entered into by the purchasing agent and the department under his supervision.

Great care in developing specifications is necessary because of the rule of accepting the lowest and best bids. Weight of furnishing unequivocal proof always is upon the purchasing department.

Surveys are constantly being made of items which are used by two or more departments, with a view to furnishing the same grade and quality to as many departments as possible. This reduces labor in handling and promotes better control of quality and reduces the cost due to greater unit quantities.

Our specifications-I think the question will be asked; I shall answer that now-are by subscriptions to trade papers, that is, they are made available and constructed from information received from trade papers, American Society for Testing Materials, National Association of Purchasing Agents, Consumers' Publications, the United States Bureau of Standards; that is, Federal specifications, I should say correctly-State highway, manufacturers' trade associations, and other governmental agencies.

Our testing facilities are the University of Cincinnati, Bureau of City Testing, and the commercial laboratories in or out of Cincinnati. Mr. MONTGOMERY. Just state what a specification is. What do you mean by a specification?