The CHAIRMAN. Haven't all these samples been graded actually according to their price? Mrs. ROLLER. Here? The CHAIRMAN. No; on the other chart; for example, the 38-cent towel is a less well constructed towel than the towel that sells for 75 cents or the towel that sells for a dollar. Mrs. ROLLER. Well, we have an example of that. If you don't mind, I won't take the 38-cent one but the 59 and the 79. Here you have a towel selling for 59 cents; here you have a towel selling for 79 cents, the same brand. In the ground in the 59 we have a thread count of 40, in the 79 a thread count of 38, not as good. We have a thread count in the pile of the 59-cent one of 39 and of 38 in the 79-cent one. The CHAIRMAN. Is there any factor that is in the 79-cent one that is not in the other which would account for that difference? Mrs. ROLLER. No; there isn't. When I went over these charts I asked about that, and I was told that there is no other factor that would affect it. Possibly style might; but if it is a difference in style, then the consumer has a right to know that she is paying for style and not for quality. The CHAIRMAN. You can see style, can you not? Mrs. ROLLER. Yes; but how do I know that it is style that I am paying more for? There isn't a sample of that here, but all of these towels that were tested were selected because they were pretty much the same. They were white towels with a slight colored border, so that style is approximately the same, and, of course, the size was the same; and, according to this chart, the weight on the more expensive one is less than the weight on the cheaper one, so that the less expensive one is more absorbent than the more expensive one. When you go through that, this shows that the cheaper one is a better quality than the more expensive one; and, of course, when we go out to buy it we don't know that. The CHAIRMAN. Well, how about the quality of the material it is? Though the count of the thread may be less, the thread itself may be of a superior quality. Is there any possibility of that? Mrs. ROLLER. Well, so far as I understand, towels are made pretty much in the same way and with the same material. The only difference is The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Have you, yourself, examined these towels? Mrs. ROLLER. I have examined these and The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Those samples? The CHAIRMAN. Where did you get the samples? Mrs. ROLLER. From the Bureau of Home Economics; and I have studied their charts and their written publications, and they have set up a proposed specification of construction on towels and they don't mention the material that it is made of, so I imagine that it is made out of pretty much the same material. The CHAIRMAN. How about that, Mr. Montgomery? Let's get the Bureau of Home Economics here and let them answer it. Mrs. ROLLER. I have their table here, if anyone would like to see it. Mr. MONTGOMERY. These are the figures they gave you, aren't they, Mrs. Roller, as indicating the quality of the towel? Mrs. ROLLER. These are the figures. Mr. MONTGOMERY. This is the test made by them, isn't it? Mrs. ROLLER. Yes. Mr. MONTGOMERY. These are the figures they used as indicating the different qualities of the towels? Mrs. ROLLER. Yes. Mr. MONTGOMERY. Didn't they tell you the most important factor is that in the last column? Mrs. ROLLER. This is the most important factor. We all want towels that will absorb, and the more a towel will absorb the better it is, and it is quite obvious that the towel whose weight is 13.6 will absorb more than a towel whose weight is only 11.1, because tests have proven that the greater the weight, the more absorbent the towel is. Dr. LUBIN. Mrs. Roller, according to that chart, then, if the last column is the most significant factor, the brand H selling at 75 centsbrand H-is the best product-far better than anything that sells for more than that price in either brand? Mrs. ROLLER. Yes; that is true. Brand H sells for 75 cents and has a weight of 15.4 ounces per square yard, as against 14.6 for $1.25 E towel. There is a saving right there of 50 cents on one item, and that is a whole lot. Mr. MONTGOMERY. What is the information you have on blankets, Mrs. Roller? Mrs. ROLLER. This again is an example of using one brand name on a variety of products having different qualities; that is, one company will put out any number of blankets of different quality and use the very same label, so that the consumer has absolutely no way of telling when she goes in to buy a blanket which one is the best quality. Now, this is a chart that was taken from the publications of the Bureau of Home Economics and this chart shows the three types of blankets that were tested. (The chart referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 514" and appears on p. 3324.) We have one brand that was all cotton, another brand that was part wool-and that was 5 to 25 percent wool-and a third brand that was all wool. Now, this chart shows the variations in weight per yard in breaking strength and in heat transmission of various blankets put out under one brand name, and no indication of this, of course, is given to the consumer. The CHAIRMAN. Are the blankets offered at different prices? Mrs. ROLLER. I don't know anything about the prices. That information wasn't given to me, but whether the prices were identical or not identical doesn't seems to me to be the important point here. The important point is that the consumer has absolutely no way of telling when she is going out to buy what the quality is and what the construction is. Now this all-wool blanket, for instance-we have three blankets put out by one brand. Now one of them may be more expensive than another, it is true, but that may be heavier and it may be lighter than another one-and some people need light blankets and some people need heavy blankets, so the price isn't the important factor. Mr. MONTGOMERY. Isn't it true that the brand is the only designation the consumer gets about those blankets-about each of those three blankets? 9.110 STATE UNIVERSITY,' LAW LIBRARY, Mrs. ROLLER. Yes; the only thing that we get is the little brand label and all that that tells us is what the name of the company is. The CHAIRMAN. Is it supposed to tell you anything else? Mrs. ROLLER. It isn't? The CHAIRMAN. I say, is it? Mrs. ROLLER. Well, I as a consumer would certainly like to know when I buy a blanket how heavy it is. I happen to like a heavy blanket. Based on M. B. Hays, "Suggested consumer specifications for six classes of blankets," Rayon Textile Monthly, February 1939. These examples show that brand names of blankets are not designations of quality. Neither weight, strength, nor warmth were uniform. This was true for brands used on cotton, part-wool, and all-wool blankets. Mr. MONTGOMERY. That isn't an answer to his question. The chairman asked whether the brand was supposed to tell you anything else than just the name of the person who made it. Mrs. ROLLER. The brand isn't, no; but the label I think should. Mr. MONTGOMERY. You have seen a good deal of advertising and so on that tells you to rely on a certain brand? Mrs. ROLLER. Yes; I certainly have. As a matter of fact, in one of the most recent issues, May issue of one of the women's magazines, there is an article telling consumers that they should rely on brand. Mr. MONTGOMERY. And what you are showing here by your exhibit Mrs. ROLLER. I am showing that brand doesn't tell you a thing. I am trying to show you here that brand doesn't tell you a thing, and that we really need more information than brand. The CHAIRMAN. Didn't I understand you to say a little earlier in the afternoon that so far as certain nationally advertised brands are concerned, that isn't true? Mrs. ROLLER. What isn't true? The CHAIRMAN. The conclusion which you have just expressed. Mrs. ROLLER. What I am trying to bring out is that none of these things have any specifications and that we would like to buy according to the specification, and that is true not only in blankets and towels and sheets and things of that sort, but also true in the case of canned goods. The CHAIRMAN. Well, the whole purpose of your testimony, then, is to indicate the desirability from your point of view of standard grades, regardless of brand? Mrs. ROLLER. Yes; and I would also like to point out that we want more information about the things that we buy. Mr. MONTGOMERY. You didn't testify earlier this afternoon, though, did you, that certain nationally advertised brands are a guarantee of uniform quality? Mrs. ROLLER. No: I testified The CHAIRMAN (interposing). I don't know the word that was used, but there was some statement. Mr. MONTGOMERY. I think she said that national brands can always be found in the store. She was talking at the moment of the question of getting used to a brand and then it would disappear. İsn't that correct? Mrs. ROLLER. Yes; I was talking about turn-over. I said that when you go into a store to buy something, if you buy a nationally advertised brand you can be pretty sure that it will be in the store the next time you come in; but if you buy one that isn't, you don't know whether you will find it there. Mr. MONTGOMERY. I think that is enough of that exhibit, with that general explanation. The figures and the record will speak for themselves. NEED FOR STANDARD SIZES Mr. MONTGOMERY. You said you had two samples of loaves of bread, didn't you, that illustrated this question of difference in brands? What was the difference there? Mrs. ROLLER. These two loaves of bread I purchased this morning in a local grocery store. Now here we have one brand. Mr. MONTGOMERY. The brand is the same? Mrs. ROLLER. The brand is the same and the label is absolutely identical. The interesting point here is that this small loaf weighs 16 ounces and sells for 9 cents; this large loaf weighs 18 ounces and sells for 12 cents, so that you get only 2 ounces more for 3 cents. 124491-39-pt. 8 I get more bread for my money by buying the small loaf than I do by buying the large loaf of the same brand. It pays me to buy two of these small loaves instead of one of these large ones. Mr. MONTGOMERY. You had some cans of applesauce, too, didn't you? Let's see the applesauce. Mrs. ROLLER. This is an example of brand as a guide to quantity. When we go into the store-I have seen this can on the shelf. This is applesauce and it sells for two The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Are you referring to the testimony? Mrs. ROLLER. I am referring to the contents of the can. This can sells for two for 15 cents, and it contains 1 pound 5 ounces. When they have special sales on in the stores this can comes off the shelf; this can [indicating another] comes on the shelf; looks exactly the same, has the same identical label, and this can contains 1 pound 2 ounces as against 1 pound 5 ounces. That is a case of deliberate Mr. MONTGOMERY (interposing). What is the price on special sale? Mrs. ROLLER. On the special sale this can sells for 5 cents. The point is that the consumer would like to know when those substi tutions are being made, because unless we see the two cans right up next to one another, even if they are far apart like this I don't think you can tell the difference. Mr. MONTGOMERY. Do you know that consumers have been fooled by that? Mrs. ROLLER. Yes; I certainly do because some of the women in the clubs that I belong to have pointed things out like this to me. Dr. LUBIN. What is the price of the big can? Mrs. ROLLER. Two for 15. Mr. MONTGOMERY. Do you have those boxes of crackers? Mrs. ROLLER. Yes; there were supposed to be two boxes of cookies but one got lost on the way up here. This box sells for 5 cents and it contains 11⁄2 ounces. Now, the same cookie in a larger box sells for 10 cents and The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Was it the larger box that got lost during the noon hour? Mrs. ROLLER. That is the larger box. The CHAIRMAN. During the noon hour? Mrs. ROLLER. I believe so; I saw it at 11 o'clock. Well, this small box contains 112 ounces and the large box contains 21⁄2 ounces of the same crackers. In other words, if I buy two of these boxes for 10 cents, they are a nickel apiece; I would be getting 3 ounces of this cracker; if I buy the 10-cent box I would be getting only 21⁄2 ounces for 10 cents. Now that may not seem very much, but when you consider the fact that there are only 111⁄2 ounces in this box, the extra half-ounce difference means a third of the box, so that if I buy two of these for 10 cents I am getting a third of a box more than if I am buying one of the larger size for 10 cents. The CHAIRMAN. So the person who spends the nickel has the advantage over the person who spends the dime? Mrs. ROLLER. Exactly. Mr. MONTGOMERY. Has the committee any further questions of Mrs. Roller? We have had the dessert now and we can close the testimony on that. Mr. FERGUSON. Mrs. Roller, I have been very much interested in your testimony, not only as a member of the committee but also as a |