Mr. JAMES. How much?

General SUMMERALL. $90,000.

Mr. JAMES. How far will that go?

General SUMMERALL. It will, by the use of post labor, provide for the construction of roads leading from the end of the concrete road to the building area, and it will extend the road through the new construction area, the barracks area, and the utilities area, linking up the various post activities.

Mr. JAMES. Of course, this bill will be reported out to the House and be put on the calendar, but we will not be able to consider it until next December.

Mr. McSwain has been down there, and we will go down there. again this summer, so that by December we can see about using a part of this money for the roads.

General SUMMERALL. I think that would be an excellent idea. The commanding officer prefers to have most of that work done by contract, and I have given you the figure of $90,000, which is the estimate of the cost of the work with the use of post labor.

Mr. JAMES. You have a reservation there of about 96,000 acres. When I was down there looking over a map I found what is known as the Benning Forest Reservation, consisting of 80,000 acres. account of that condition we could not fire our own guns on our own land.

I spoke to you about getting the 80,000 acres back, so that we would have the whole 96,000 acres. I found that they got rent for the use of the 86,000 acres, but that that amount that was received for rent was not put to the credit of the Army. What was done about that?

General SUMMERALL. The forest reserve has been canceled, and the Department of Agriculture has surrendered it to the War Department. The leases are being terminated as fast as they expire. Mr. JAMES. Is there not a similar situation at Fort Sill?

General SUMMERALL. Not on the Fort Sill Reservation. There is a forest reserve in the vicinity of Fort Sill belonging to the Department of Agriculture. The troops there are authorized to use that reservation for maneuvers and firing, but it does not extend onto the reservation.

Mr. JAMES. That is not a part of the reservation?

General SUMMERALL. No, sir; that is not a part of the reservation. Mr. JAMES. Is there any place in the Army where part of our land has been turned over to the Department of Agriculture as a forest reserve outside of Fort Benning?

General SUMMERALL. After you presented this matter in regard to Fort Benning, a survey was made of all our reservation and action was taken to terminate practically all of the forest reserves on our reservations. There are a few remaining where there is no interference whatever, such as that at Fort Wingate, N. Mex., and Pole Mountain, Wyo. Those are the only two I recall at this moment. We have terminated those at Camp Dix and Fort Humphrey and other places which I do not now recall.

Mr. JAMES. Will you put a statement about those in the record? General SUMMERALL. Yes, sir.

Pursuant to the provisions of section 9 of the act of June 7, 1924 (43 Stat. 655), 19 national forests were created by Executive order on military reservations in the years 1924, 1925, and 1926.

Following is a list of the reservations so affected and the date of the Executive order in each case:

The orders creating such national forests have been revoked, pursuant to the joint request of the War Department and the Department of Agriculture, as to the following 12 reservations, on the dates shown:

The foregoing action was taken after several years' trial which demonstrated conclusively to both departments concerned that dual occupancy of the 12 reservations named was unsatisfactory.

Mr. JAMES. The mooring mast at Rockwell Field is down now, is it?

General FECHET. Yes.

Mr. JAMES. Has the Navy any buildings on our land at Bolling Field, moved there lately?

General FECHET. No, sir; that is the same as it was a year ago. Mr. JAMES. What was their last request to take some of that land away from us?

General FECHET. They wanted to put a permanent barracks on there.

Mr. DAVISON. That was on the site they are occupying now; it did not extend the area.

Mr. JAMES. I thought they were going to start the construction work on the Army property and you told them to stop.

Mr. DAVISON. No; that was a radio mast.

Mr. JAMES. On the Army land without consulting you?

Mr. DAVISON. It was on their side of the field. Of course, the whole field is ours. They have replaced the old mast, which they

put up a good many years ago, by a mast that is somewhat higher, on approximately the same location, but it was done without the approval of the War Department. That is on the same site.

Mr. JAMES. You mean the land at Bolling Field on which the Navy men are now flying is Army land?

Mr. DAVISON. Yes, sir.

Mr. JAMES. On what kind of a lease?

Mr. DAVISON. To the Navy?

Mr. JAMES. Yes.

Mr. DAVISON. It is on a revocable-license lease. I do not know when that was made.

Major KENNEDY. They are only allowed on that end where they are building their hangar.

General BOOTH. They got permission to put up that hangar. It was put up as a temporary hangar.

Major KENNEDY. That is the only one they ever had authority to build.

Mr. JAMES. I wish you would put that lease in the record. I would like to see what chance the Army has to get that back. Mr. DAVISON. I will do that. It is absolutely revocable.

Mr. JAMES. I do not believe that any time you lease property to the Navy it is revocable.

Mr. WAINWRIGHT. Is it a lease?

Mr. DAVISON. It is not exactly a lease; it is a license. It is permission by the Secretary of War to the Secretary of the Navy for the Navy to occupy that property.

(The lease referred to is as follows:)

The SECRETARY OF THE NAVY.

OCTOBER 9, 1917.

MY DEAR MR. SECRETARY: In reply to your communication dated September 25. 1917, in which you request that this department authorize the use for the erection of a seaplane hangar of a portion of the Anacostia Flats, approximately across from the War College, in connection with the establishment of seaplane service between Hampton Roads, Va., and Washington, D. C., this department is pleased to comply with your request upon the understanding that the Army may have joint use with the Navy of such facilities at any time and that the arrangements for such use will be subject to the approval of the Chief Signal Officer of the Army.

Very respectfully,

No formal license was ever given.

WM. M. INGRAHAM, Assistant Secretary of War.

Mr. MCSWAIN. Is there any incompatibility in their contemporaneous occupation of the different parts of the same field?

Mr. DAVISON. We are getting along very well at Bolling Field. The only serious difficulty which we have had at all that I can recall is the question in regard to the mooring mast, which has all been straightened out.

They put it up higher when they were replacing the old one with the new one.

They put it up higher so that they could get out more easily, and they say they get out more easily since they put it up. But they put it up without permission, at a much higher altitude, and then upon our demand they cut it down to the same height.

Mr. JAMES. What is there now, with the present altitude, you regard as a hazard to safety in taking off and landing on Bolling Field?

Mr. DAVISON. Of course, every structure is an additional hazard, but these masts are a much less hazard than masts that have been up there for a good many years; that is, the radio masts.

Mr. JAMES. My personal impression is that I represent the views of the subcommittee and the full committee when I say that this land was purchased for the War Department, and it is our desire to confine it as closely to the activities of the War Department as is possible, and I would like to have the opinion of you gentlemen on that particular proposition.

General SUMMERALL. I agree with you in this matter.
General FECHET. I also agree.

Mr. JAMES. When you get to Rockwell Field

Mr. DAVISON (interposing). That is a different situation.

Mr. JAMES. There is a situation where the Army has a field that was bought with Army money, and where, when the Army wants to do any flying on its own field out there it is handicapped.

Mr. DAVISON. That is a very different situation.

Mr. JAMES. When I was out there a year ago in September I was hoping I would be interfered with in getting off so I could send a telegram to Washington to the effect that I could not get off there in an Army plane because of the interference of Navy fliers, but there were not any planes flying around there.

There is a good deal of difficulty encountered by Army planes in getting off there, although the field was purchased with Army

money.

Mr. DAVISON. Yes; but as I recall the situation, my impression is that some years ago that side of the field was turned over to the Navy. The situation is different from that at Bolling Field, where we still have control.

Mr. JAMES. It was purchased with Army money.

Mr. DAVISON. Yes.

Mr. JAMES. I told General Fechet the other day that the next time I went out there I was going to take off from there no matter what hazard I took to see whether a Navy plane would interfere with an Army plane. I was told that I could not do that.

But it is a shame when you can not use Army fields because of the interference of Navy planes on land that originally belonged to the Army. Is there any solution of that matter?

Mr. DAVISON. From what standpoint? Do you mean with reference to getting the land back again?

Mr. JAMES. They told me when we tried to take off that a good many times there was interference with Army planes in getting off. I think Congressman Furlow told me he came near being arrested on account of that situation. The last time we landed we violated the rules out there by flying over land that we were not supposed to fly over.

Mr. WAINWRIGHT. Whose rules?

Mr. JAMES. The Navy rules, I guess.

Mr. WAINWRIGHT. What is the exact situation?

Mr. DAVISON. Major Emmons is more familiar with the situation at Rockwell Field than anybody here, and he can tell you about that. Mr. WAINWRIGHT. One might think you were talking about two foreign powers.

Mr. JAMES. I should like to have Major Emmons tell the committee about that. When we wanted to get off that field we had to taxi away down to the last edge of the island to get off, did we not? Major EMMONS. Yes, sir.

Mr. JAMES. I wish you would tell the subcommittee what we have to do to get Army planes off of an Army field.

Mr. WAINWRIGHT. Do you mean an Army field where there is joint. occupation with the Navy?

Mr. JAMES. The Army has one part of the island. All of Rockwell Field belonged to the Army at first, and then Mr. Weeks, as well giving other things away, gave away a part of the Army's island to the Navy. So we have this end and we have that end. [Indicating.]

Mr. WAINWRIGHT. I suppose that they would claim that they have the same trouble with the Army.

Major EMMONS. They say that down there it is very restricted, particularly the flying room, due to the various types of airplanes that are being flown.

The general layout of Rockwell Field is as a reservation of approximately 1,400 acres. Assuming that this paper [indicating] is the island, the Army and Navy line runs across like that, and the Navy buildings are here [indicating] and the Army buildings are here [indicating]. The prevailing wind direction is about like this [indicating]. The Navy, over here [indicating] have a marine provisional group, consisting of various types of Navy planes, pursuit planes, spotting planes, and what they call the 3-purpose planes, which are nothing more nor less than bombardment planes, taking off over Army property almost continuously in formation.

In addition to that, they have seaplanes along that shore, taking off every day.

The Army, in order to land on its own property, would ordinarily come over Navy property, and that is restricted by Navy regulations, so we have to come up this way [indicating] and make a quick turn. The reason our room is so badly restricted is this: over here is Point Loma [indicating]; the Pacific Ocean is here [indicating], and Coronado Island is here, and San Diego is here [indicating]. A city ordinance in Coronado prevents flying at an altitude of less than 2.500 feet, and that is also true as to San Diego and as to Point Loma. So the planes taking off from there follow one track around this whole island, and the way they have to do that makes it a very dangerous situation, particularly when the visibility is bad. So there is a very dangerous situation there.

Mr. WAINWRIGHT. Do you mean to say in the adjustment of relations between the two services, you consider that the Army comes up to the limits of their side and the Navy to the limits on their side, and neither one can come over on the side of the other? Major EMMONS. No, sir.

Mr. WAINWRIGHT. That is a most preposterous proposition. And there is nobody to adjust that situation?

Major EMMONS That is true. As a general proposition, when there are joint Army and Navy activities, ordinarily you would have half a dozen auxiliary flying fields. The only one that the Navy has is the one at Camp Kearney, which is Army property.